Using AXE FX 2 Live - with 2 separate outputs - tube power amp and FOH

guitarzanproductions

guitarzanproductions

Inspired
Hey Guys,

Are there any AXE FX users out there that are using the AXE FX live; running their AXE FX in to a tube amp for monitoring while taking a separate out to FOH?

I would like to run my AXE FX into a VHT 2/50/2 Stereo amp for stage monitoring (out 1), while taking another out to run FOH (Out 1 XLR). The big question is adjusting the power amp sims. So far things sound pretty good without adjusting the power amp sims (on) and Cab Sim (active), so I'm wondering how others are using their AXE FX live, in particular at bigger venues.
 
i don't have an answer to your comment, but wouldn't you rather just mic the guitar cabinet like normal and sent it to FOH?

i still don't understand how people have one sound on stage, and then send a (most likely) totally different sound to the FOH, due to different cab sim, mic choice, etc. i want to know what i'm sending to FOH and if it's a live mic'd cab, so be it. how can you hear what FOH sounds like with a guitar cab on stage?
 
i've done this even at smaller venues. the advantage is not same tone everywhere but stage volume having no impact on house volume aka no surprises for the soundman and he gets a clean, clear line with zero stage noise, cymbal bleed, etc.

yes, its not the same sound in both places, but candidly, who cares? this is live music not an audio lab!
as long as its a good sound and more importantly is heard at a volume LEVEL appropriate in both places IMHO you are already #winning!

How many people blow the audience out of the first few rows with wildly hot stage volume only to have the soundman clamp them at the board so they are actually too quiet way in the back? Happens all the damn time!

Sure, FRFR is the easier way to do this, but that isn't everyone's cup of tea. I do FRFR at home and amp and cab live b/c its just easier. the speaker sim off/on switch is the only thing I have to throw to make this change in a hurry.

as for the routing specifics inside the AF there are whole threads on that if you search.
 
the advantage for me using OUT1 to FOH and OUT2 to a an amp/cab mainly is for me controlling my own stage sound (volume, eq, ect) without screwing with the sound guy.
i've had more compliments on my tone using the cab sims FOH than a mic'd cab.
but i play in a rock cover band and most of the places we play aren't really setup for a decent "setup".

just my 2¢.
 
Understood and I'm not looking for exactly sonically matched tone in both outputs, but I know some who dedicate all their time to how they sound on stage for themselves, yet from the audience the FOH feed sounds horrible! What do you guys do to ensure the audience hears something good?
 
Chris,

FOH should only sound horrible if you ran a amp sim without its cab to the FOH. Choosing the right cab block is personal taste, but I like distance mic'd or far field cab impulses for a more "live" sound.

The easiest thing to do is choose a virtual cab that has the same speaker type as your actual cab so you'll be in the ballpark and then audition a few different versions to find the right one or the right blend. This way has never sounded horrible for me and in many cases sounds better than the "real" alternative would b/c its so much easier for the sound man. Remember they can and often will EQ you again so you were never really in control in the first place. : )

-P
 
i totally agree with chris on that one. my focus is getting a great FoH sound.
HOWEVER, when I'm playing, I want to get a good onstage sound, so I will feel inspired and give a good performance.

So I always tweak on a system that is close to a typical FoH, and I send a feed of that to my FRFR (with some slight tweaks as it's not fully frfr - I usually use it because it's light, and I'm lazy :lol my true FRFR usually stays at home or in the bandroom, unless I have big gigs)

So I can understand both arguments. as for the OP - you'll fnd that VHT will sound great, so no worries. if you push it really hard and loud, you might find yourself reducing the sag, and probalby the master, but I doubt you'd find yourself turning PA sims off
 
Cool I'm really just trying to understand :) I can't imagine going without FRFR but that's just a limitation I put upon myself.
 
FOH Guitar Sound....

Hey Guys,

I think the only way to ensure excellent FOH guitar-sound (regardless of whether it's a mic'd-up cab or direct-out with cab-sims) is to:

A.) Hire a really good sound-guy whom you trust (preferrably with excellent FOH-gear.) Truth: A BAD FOH-guy could screw-up a GREAT tone, but if he's any good, and you give him a decent tone, he probably won't ruin it...Remember to double-check his skills IN-CONTEXT, and NOT whilst SOLOED!!!

B.) Keep practicing/working on your craft! Generally (not always...but usually) the better players produce the better guitar-tones from their fingers/ears/heart/mind...Just sayin'.

C.) Time-permitting - Get a long enough instrument-cable (20 - 25 ft. should suffice - or if you use a wireless, even easier!) and listen to your FOH-sound AS YOU'RE BAND IS CHECKING - Preferrably "in-context" I.E: While running through an actual song - NOT whilst SOLOED (unless you play "Eruption-style" unnaccompanied guitar-solos all night, in which case listen to your soloed guitar-sound closely, and good luck getting a return-date from the club/manager/agent - LOL!) If you DO NOT like how your guitar sounds in-context in the FOH-mix, share your thoughts with your FOH-guy (Hint: Tread lightly here. If you are a "dick" to him at this point, don't expect your guitar to be loud enough OR sounding very good in the mix!)

D.) Ultimately, See A.) and B.) (above) and CONCENTRATE on busting your ass to play/sing/perform your best. Ultimately, you'll need to LET GO of your perceived control over the FOH-sound, short of (as I said earlier) carefully sharing your thoughts with your FOH-guy. Get a sound that "gives-you-wood" in your little "tone-zone" on stage (where you'll be all night,) buy the FOH-guy a beer (no shots though, his hearing will start to crap-out - LOL!) and FUGGEDABOUTIT! Control what YOU can control (your performance AND your sound on-stage - either mic'd-cab with or without POWER-SIMS=ON and/or CAB-SIMS=ON tone to FOH) and have a great gig!

Bill
 
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i have separate stage and FOH sends with my setup and during soundcheck, i at least turn down my stage volume completely to hear what the FOH sounds like. usually the speakers are close enough to the edge of the stage for me to hear. if i have time (and if it's a big enough show!) i use wireless to run out during a sound check song to hear it in context. definitely no substitute for that.

with a guitar cab/power amp setup on stage, you can do the same thing and turn down your stage volume to hear what the FOH sounds like!
 
I'm still surprised that so many people play such big shows all of the time to warrant guitars running through the PA. I have yet to go to a local show where guys are completely relying on their setup mic'd (or modeling rig FOH) and only directly monitoring themselves onstage. I guess if you play in worship that is probably the norm where there needs to be absolute volume control on stage, but most of the time when I go see my friend's bands (or sit in) it is in restaurants bars playing loud rock music and amps are backline and rarely mic'd. If they are, they are just to add a taste of guitars up front to blend everything together. More often than not the kick is mic'd, vocals of course and that is about it.
Because of this and because once I'm ready to play out regularly I will be in the same "scene" lol I am banking on needing a great backline setup first and foremost, then worrying about FOH down the line. My approach will be like others:
Get great sounding full blown patches at home on studio monitors, if possible test them through full PA as well just in case.
Disable cab sims on Output 2 and run into my Matrix GM50 / Scumback loaded cabinet and make it work at all volumes.
Seeing that we now even have the option to "shoot IR's" it might even be possible to shoot my live setup into a useable IR (ie. Matrix GM50 / Scumback captured and turned into an IR).
Is this possible? I have not read the tutorial on shooing IR's but I'm wondering if you can do this all in one shot?
If so, that should be pretty wild and get you much closer to having a match between your FOH and your "backline" setup, no?
 
guitarzanproductions said:
Hey Guys,

Are there any AXE FX users out there that are using the AXE FX live; running their AXE FX in to a tube amp for monitoring while taking a separate out to FOH?
Click to expand...

Yep, I do it that way since day 1 with my Ultra & Standard and now with the Axe II. The only "homework" I had to to when first setting up my rig was to find a cab/mic sim combination for the FOH that comes close to the sound of my real cab (a 80s Marshall straight with 4 100 Watt Celestions) - in my case the 4x12 V30 with the Royer 121 ribbon does the job perfectly. I use this cab/mic combination in all of my patches and use them for playing live and for recording without any changes! Of course the FOH tone is not 100 % the same as out of my 4x12, but definitely closer than a (in most live cases) poorly miked cab.... (I remember a gig where I forgot tho switch on the standby of the MESA for the second set, the stage monitores were really, (really!!!) loud, I played the whole first song just through the monitors, only missing a bit of the usually "moving air" behind me, so, tonewise, yes, it's close enough :))

I use a MESA 2:100 (with EL34) and didn't adjust anything - all my patches run with power amp sim on to the MESA poweramp, for the FOH there's just the cab/mic (after the FX block which delivers the signal for the 2:100) in the patch chain.


Andreas
 
This is an interesting topic and one I have been thinking about since I got my Axe-Fx II about 2 months ago. I have used the Axe for several shows but I have been running it through a Velocity 300 power amp and a Line 6 2x12 cabinet. It sounds great like this, but now I have a QSC K10 and I want to go the FRFR route live. Has anyone tried this type of live setup (I have not)?:

Copy Out1>Out2

OUT1 LEFT to FOH (I run mono live)
OUT2 LEFT to FRFR monitor
OUT2 RIGHT to Power Engine 60 for some stage wash for my drummer and bass player.
-- the cool thing about this is that the Power Engine 60 has its own volume and EQ.
 
jon said:
you'd have to set out 1 or out 2 modes to copyL>R for that to work
Click to expand...

I figured I'd have to do something like that. I'll try to experiment with this setup in my studio tonight and see how it works. I know that Scott P. just uses OUT 1 (left to FOH, right to FRFR) and this would work too, but I think I would like to have separate control of the volumes for OUT 1 and OUT 2.

I don't want to have to go through my presets and drop in an FX Loop block.
 
no what you describe will work without the fx loop, just set copyout1 (and out 2)L>R and copy out1>out2
You can then adjust the output volumes for out 1 and 2 from the front knobs
 
Cab sim and power amp sim for 2 different outputs?

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the helpful responses!

Ok so here is the question:

Can I run output 1 L&R with cab and power sim on to FOH, then output 2 L&R with cab and power sim off to my tube stage rig? I really like the idea of blending sounds, and having separate control over FOH vs Stage?

I don't play at loud stage volumes, more of a rock fusion vibe.

YouTube - Scott Szeryk - TransFusion - (Live Studio Performance) - Instrumental Guitar
 
Yes. I think that exact setup is detailed in the manual. You use an FX loop block to do this.

I know this setup is in the wiki as well, with a few different ways to do it.
 
chrisallen8888 said:
Yes. I think that exact setup is detailed in the manual. You use an FX loop block to do this.

I know this setup is in the wiki as well, with a few different ways to do it.
Click to expand...




Hey Chris,

Do you know if there is another way to achieve this without using the FX loop block?

It would be so much easier if there was a way to do it globally, that way I wouldn't have to insert the FX loop into every one of my presets..

Any ideas?
 
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