Bug? Unwanted Midi messages on FM9 after Preset change

[Ben Lewry]

So I've been testing this for many hours and can't figure it out.

FM9 turbo running FW v6.0
When changing presets, I expect to see a Bank CC message followed by a PC message.
Any additional messages should be supplied by the MIDI Block.
This happens correctly some of the time.
But quite often I see several other "unwanted" PC and CC messages delivered at the same time.
While the correct PC message is delivered, the additional messages are causing problems with my midi controller.

My test setup ran the FM9 5 pin midi OUT into an RME midi interface on a windows machine running midiOX diagnostics.
I tested an FM3 and an AxeFXIII MKII and neither of these units reproduced the problem.
I also tested without the Editor program connected via USB and the problem persisted.

* Finally I tried turning OFF "Send Realtime Sysex" and this seemed to cure the problem. **
So perhaps the issue lies somewhere in the sysex output?

In the first attached example, the bottom five lines are all unwanted messages.
The very last line, Channel 10, CC16, value 247 should not even be possible? as CC values only go to 127.

In the second example, all I did was scroll up the factory presets on the unit.
We should have seen CC bank message, followed by PC message. Followed by CC / PC and CC / PC.... etc.
Instead we see several PC messages in a row, followed by random CC messages.

Thanks so much for looking into this!
Cheers,
-ben

 

[elvis]

I have my FM9 sending MIDI on some presets. In addition, there are a variety of controllers that could be active and sending messages. Is it possible that you have controllers sending messages in some of your presets?

 

[GlennO]

Looks like nonsense. If you’re sure that’s all coming from the FM9 and nothing else, e.g. FM9 Edit or a midi controller, is connected, I’d suspect the Sysex is being misinterpreted by midiox.

 

[unix-guy]

Does your controller grok FM9 Tuner and Tap Tempo sysex?

If not that probably explains why turning off Send Realtime Sysex fixes it.

 

[Ben Lewry]

Looks like nonsense. If you’re sure that’s all coming from the FM9 and nothing else, e.g. FM9 Edit or a midi controller, is connected, I’d suspect the Sysex is being misinterpreted by midiox.

My understanding of the "Send Realtime Sysex" is that this includes only the Beat and Tempo messages. Is that right?

Attached is a second example of the output error. This time I ran the FM9 through my SY1000 to a mac.
(the SY1000 has a superpower that can pass midi from 5 pin IN to USB out. Handy for troubleshooting.)
Here you can see I select program 9 through 20 correctly. Bank/Program, bank/program, bank/program...
Then I reverse and go back down. when I hit 17 you'll see a mess of data that shouldn't be there.
Sysex messages are filtered out in this reading.

My custom guitars are in constant communication with the Fractal. We're testing using realtime sysex for tempo features and PC commands
for pickup selection, ect. So this has caused a small hickup.
But maybe there's something I missed or some other box I checked accidentally? I can't find it...

 

[unix-guy]

 

[unix-guy]

Have you seen this already?

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/third-party-midi-spec.140602/

 

[GlennO]

Attached is a second example of the output error. This time I ran the FM9 through my SY1000 to a mac.
(the SY1000 has a superpower that can pass midi from 5 pin IN to USB out. Handy for troubleshooting.)

That's hardly a superpower. That's the function performed by any trivial midi interface . But by involving the SY1000, you've introduced a possible source of interference for the test you're trying to perform. I'd suggest removing anything that generates midi (including FM9 Edit), except the fm9, from your test system.

 

[Ben Lewry]

That's hardly a superpower. That's the function performed by any trivial midi interface . But by involving the SY1000, you've introduced a possible source of interference for the test you're trying to perform. I'd suggest removing anything that generates midi (including FM9 Edit), except the fm9, from your test system.

Thanks GlennO,
The original post runs a super clean test, 5 pin wired, straight to midiOX.

"Superpower" was a bit of a joke... hehe

 

[GlennO]

I don't know what to tell you, but the 247 is obviously a sysex terminator, either being misinterpreted by midiox or mistransmitted by the FM9 or you've got midi streams mismerged.

 

[Ben Lewry]

Just another data point here.
I can go back and fourth between preset 1 and preset 2 (65 Bassguy / Vibrato Lux),
You can see that after several cycles, the same data is not transmitted.
On the 5th cycle we see additional midi messages (marked in red).
In other words selecting the same preset does not send consistent messages each time.
So I think it's unlikely that this is an issue with any of my settings.

It would be great if someone could replicate my results?
Turn on Realtime Sysex and monitor PC and CC messages while changing presets.
This way I could determine if it's my hardware or a bug?

 

[GlennO]

I would turn off the sysex filter. Seeing those messages might shed some light on what's going on.

 

[Ben Lewry]

I would turn off the sysex filter. Seeing those messages might shed some light on what's going on.

Here it is with sysex included.

Same test. Switching between preset 1 and 2, several times.
It seems that message fragments are present, and it's causing erroneous PC messages to be sent.

If it's my machine, I'll try a reset.
If it's everyone's machine that would be great to know.
I may be crazy, but I'm not insane... am I?

 

[GlennO]

Ok, showing the sysex messages makes it pretty clear there's a correlation. The problem happens whenever the tempo is sent at the same time as the PC. Unless there's a bug in MIDIOx, it looks like it might be a FM9 bug.

By the way, I can't seem to reproduce this on my AxeFX III. A tempo message sent at the same msec as a PC doesn't cause a problem.

 

[unix-guy]

@m_brown

 

[Ben Lewry]

@m_brown

I did some further testing today. I was able to reproduce the data errors consistently in two different scenarios on the FM9.

1) Send Realtime Sysex = ON --> Unwanted messages occur when PC is sent while changing presets.
(turning OFF Realtime Sysex cures the problem).

2) Send Realtime Sysex = OFF AND External CC Input data stream arriving --> Unwanted messages occur again when PC is sent

So it seems that something is going off the track during the "Soft MIDI Merge" for the FM9 Midi Out.

I tested the FM3 and it was a bit slower but it seems to perform better (?)
No problems found with the AxeFXIII and coincidentally it doesn't merge In and Out...

 

[FractalAudio]

Engineering is aware of the issue and working on it.