Ultra vs. II head-to-head

mworkman

mworkman

Experienced
It has been interesting reading all the responses from the clips posted of the new II. Mostly raves and few "the Ultra is pretty close."

Normally I HATE these kinds of "challenges" but I would be interested to hear a clip of the Ultra vs. a clip of the II utilizing the same preset, the same stock cab, and the same settings (and where the II may have a new parameter or what not just leave a default value). Ideally you could record a guitar riff and re-amp into both boxes and capture those clips and post them blind and let people vote which is the Ultra or the II and see what people come up with.

If one of the beta testers has both the Ultra and II would you be willing to do this?
 
DADA said:
There is one to my knowledge
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/recordings/36977-marshally-clips.html
Someone decide to close it. Why? do not know.
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Thanks. I did see that thread and forgot about it.

This is what I took away from it which I think is a quote from Jay himself:
...the participants who have hands-on experience with both devices used to make the clips are not in agreement in their preferences.
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The other thing I took from the thread is that you can make both sound similar enough that the differences are insignificant.

So from a sound perspective it makes me a tad skeptical when I see comments posted "once you play it, you'll want it." I am not saying those opinions aren't valid. We should all make up our own minds so at some point I'll order a II and do a live in-person head-to-head and I'll keep the one I like the best.

Another thing that crossed my mind is I look at the evolution of the firmware of the Ultra over the years and now we are at a point where it is unlikely to make dramatic improvements going forward. The II platform however is just at the starting point and even though those units appear to sound similar now the differences may be much greater a year down the road given Cliff's "continuous improvement" track record.
 
I still really wanted to try my real 5150 into my 412 vs the 5150 sim (with power amp sim off) into the real 5150 poweramp and see how close it would sound. But in order to fund an axe the 5150 had to go bye bye haha but yes this would also be interesting to see/hear!
 
DADA said:
There is one to my knowledge
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/recordings/36977-marshally-clips.html
Someone decide to close it. Why? do not know.
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Then I'll try to make this really simple, so you can understand "why." That was not an "Ultra vs. Axe-Fx II" comparison. Additionally, it did not provide what the OP requested. The idiotic guessing game that began when I (mistakenly, as it turns out) answered a question truthfully was completely OT. The thread had ceased to serve the purpose for which it was begun. That is why it is now closed and the clips taken down.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
Then I'll try to make this really simple, so you can understand "why." That was not an "Ultra vs. Axe-Fx II" comparison. Additionally, it did not provide what the OP requested. The idiotic guessing game that began when I (mistakenly, as it turns out) answered a question truthfully was completely OT. The thread had ceased to serve the purpose for which it was begun. That is why it is now closed and the clips taken down.
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In your last post in that thread you said “exactly half the people expressing a preference chose Clip A. The other half chose B”. If the clips were in fact the AFX I and AFX II then it is understandable why the thread was closed and the clips removed.
 
timowens316 said:
In your last post in that thread you said “exactly half the people expressing a preference chose Clip A. The other half chose B”. If the clips were in fact the AFX I and AFX II then it is understandable why the thread was closed and the clips removed.
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If you think that has anything to do with the thread being closed, then you understand exactly nothing. I closed the thread, and I did so on my own, for reasons I have already stated.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
If you think that has anything to do with the thread being closed, then you understand exactly nothing. I closed the thread, and I did so on my own, for reasons I have already stated.
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Well, to be honest, that’s what it seems like. Either way, it seems unfair to start such a thread and not answer the question “which is which” and then remove the clips. It’s kind of like playing games with people. If there was no harm caused by that thread then there should be no harm in answering the question and putting the clips back up. No worries though, I’m sure as soon as the AFX II is released someone else will post an A/B comparison.
 
timowens316 said:
Either way, it seems unfair to start such a thread and not answer the question “which is which” and then remove the clips.
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You are welcome to believe something is "unfair." OTOH, I am under no obligation whatever to act according to your notion of what constitutes "fairness." Like I tell my kids, life ain't fair. To their credit, they eventually got it.

My position on the comparison was stated early in the thread: "I don't have a strong preference for either clip. I didn't agonize over minute details, nor did I set out to create a perfect tonal match. Given the offhand nature of the effort, I was astonished at how alike the two sounded. The clips were recorded simultaneously, with the same signal going into both units. The only thing I matched analytically was level."

The point of the clip, for those who insist on remaining clueless, was to demonstrate the power of making best use of available tools. It was not to demonstrate that one was "better" than the other. The null result of all the OT guessing makes that point very well.
 
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Jay Mitchell said:
You are welcome to believe something is "unfair." OTOH, I am under no obligation whatever to act according to your notion of what constitutes "fairness." Like I tell my kids, life ain't fair. To their credit, they eventually got it.
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LOL, I get it, it is what it is. One of these days you and I will agree on something, I'm sure of it :)

EDIT: You edited your reply after I replied so I'll edit my reply. I think the intended purpose of your thread was a good one, I'm just sorry I missed it and didn't get to hear the clips. I have been wanting to hear some A/B clips, I don't think that is an unreasonable request. I still don't understand why you had to remove your clips, but whatever...
 
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mworkman said:
Thanks. I did see that thread and forgot about it.

This is what I took away from it which I think is a quote from Jay himself:


The other thing I took from the thread is that you can make both sound similar enough that the differences are insignificant.

So from a sound perspective it makes me a tad skeptical when I see comments posted "once you play it, you'll want it." I am not saying those opinions aren't valid. We should all make up our own minds so at some point I'll order a II and do a live in-person head-to-head and I'll keep the one I like the best.

Another thing that crossed my mind is I look at the evolution of the firmware of the Ultra over the years and now we are at a point where it is unlikely to make dramatic improvements going forward. The II platform however is just at the starting point and even though those units appear to sound similar now the differences may be much greater a year down the road given Cliff's "continuous improvement" track record.
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Don't make the mistake of thinking that because they can be dialled to the point that the differences are insignificant that the differences are insignificant. Jay dialled those two clips to sound the same, so it's no surprise there was little difference.

As an aside I didn't quite get the point of Jays thread (anyone can explain?) and I'm surprised that he was surprised when people started guessing; what did he expect?

Cheers.
 
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Soma said:
Don't make the mistake of thinking that because they can be dialled to the point that the differences are insignificant that the differences are insignificant. Jay dialled those two clips to sound the same, so it's no surprise there was little difference.

Cheers.
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At the end of the day I need to listen to both (Ultra and II) myself, in person, and make my own decision. I originally asked for the comparison because what I was reading about the differences between the two units wasn't always congruent with what I was hearing in terms of the clips.

Playing a guitar through a splitter and sending one into an Ultra and the other into a II with identical presets I thought would be a nice comparison to see how much of gap existed between the two units. In retrospect the thead is going a little South and I kind of would like a do over. I can make these comparisons myself at a later date when I have both units available.
 
I did not hear clips or anything but my take is this. Scot and many others have noted that their is a big difference in feel. They have also said that those differences don't always come across on youtube or a sound clip. Those points about feel and the added features are selling points for me. i am happy with the tone of my ultra...it even "feels" prety good to me but if I can have new amp models when hey come out, a cat five jack to use my MFC a USB for updating, the ability to reamp get even more "feel" out of the unit then I am in!
 
Soma said:
Jay dialled those two clips to sound the same,
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No. That is precisely what I did not do. I quote once again from post #17 in the thread: "I dialed in a Marshall sound I like on the II, and then I compared it to my go-to Strat/Marshall preset in my Standard."

In a case such as this where there is a written record, my suggestion is to read it. That would help prevent false assertions like the one you made here.

As an aside I didn't quite get the point of Jays thread
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Agreed. You don't get it.
 
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mworkman said:
Playing a guitar through a splitter and sending one into an Ultra and the other into a II with identical presets I thought would be a nice comparison
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"Identical presets" are not possible.

In retrospect the thead is going a little South and I kind of would like a do over.
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Welcome to my world.

I can make these comparisons myself at a later date when I have both units available.
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That is what I recommend. That is the only way you will know which way to proceed.

I've been accused of closing a thread specifically because it failed to establish a preference for the shiny, new product and of trying to prejudice preferences against said product within the space of four posts in this thread. It should be evident to the accusers that you both cannot be right. For the record, you are both wrong.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
"Identical presets" are not possible.
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Sometimes it is hard to post in the same thread as you because you hold people to a certain precision. I am not saying that is wrong. For the record, I agree with you that identical presets are not possible. Certainly highly similar which is why in the original post I said "utilizing the same preset, the same stock cab, and the same settings (and where the II may have a new parameter or what not just leave a default value)."

So what I had intended to mean, and made a poor word choice, was to create a simple preset in both the Ultra and II with just an amp and cab block. The same amp type in both. The same cab type in both. Where the associated parameters between the Ultra and II are the same they should have the same values. Where they are different leave default values.

I know the II is a different beast... there is the whole input impedence, the unity gain thing, the EQ in the amp block, the cab block has the room simulation... and I sure others I am leaving out.

My initial curiosity was if I have amp type X with a 4x12 in the Ultra and setup the same (or as close as possible recognizing that it won't be identical) in the II how different would those sound, or not.

The other side is feel which brings me back around to I need to hear/feel for myself when I have the opportunity to do so and then make my decision. At this point I've reached my limit of "posting repetition" so I'll cut myself off.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
No. That is precisely what I did not do. I quote once again from post #17 in the thread: "I dialed in a Marshall sound I like on the II, and then I compared it to my go-to Strat/Marshall preset in my Standard."

In a case such as this where there is a written record, my suggestion is to read it. That would help prevent false assertions like the one you made here.
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Yeah, my bad. I assumed when you dialled in the Marshall sound on the II the way you liked it it would inherently tend towards your go to patch, which presumably is also the way you like it. If I dialled in a Recto sound on two different units I imagine they would end up very similar, because I know what I like and would presumably be aiming for the same sound I hear in my head each time.

Agreed. You don't get it.
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Why are you like this? I genuinely wanted to know what you were trying to achieve with the thread and you just come back snide.

Cheers.
 
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