Triaxis/Mark II settings in the Axe... help?

G

gwertman

Member
Hi all,
I own a Triaxis v2 and a Mesa Quad Preamp. I also have an Axe-Fx Ultra. I've been trying to dial in my Quad Lead 1 and Triaxis LD2 Yellow settings in the Axe-Fx and have found that there's no way to just 'carry' them over. Does the USA lead and Mark II Axe-Fx sims have some Post EQ-ing already on them? I've disabled the GEQ/PEQs plus all the other effects in the Axe. I just want to carry over my Mesa settings if possible. With the Triaxis set to no Digital Voice (the built in equivalient of the 5 band Mark EQ) the Triaxis sounds nasty (of course). Same with the Quad. IMHO anyways. BUT - The Axe-Fx however does not. It's almost like the Axe-Fx designer put a little 'Digital Voice'/5 band EQ in there to save on needing an EQ in the Axe.....

So, anyone out there 'migrating' from Mesa? Thoughts? Just abandon the Mesa settings and dial in the Axe to 'taste'?

Thanks all!

-Gary
 
gwertman said:
So, anyone out there 'migrating' from Mesa? Thoughts? Just abandon the Mesa settings and dial in the Axe to 'taste'?
Click to expand...

Hey Gary,

I "migrated" from a TriAxis, Quad, and Mark IV (still have them) and yeah, I abandoned the Mesa settings and just dialed in the USA Lead 2 by ear. I think I used the concept of the Mark settings as a boilerplate (keeping bass low and treble high). However, the settings on the Axe-Fx are nowhere near what I set on my Mark-type amps.

For example, on my Boogie preamps, I usually set the treble around 8 and the bass around 2. From what I recall on the Axe-Fx, I have the bass knob around 10:30 and the treble around 2:00 (that's approximate, because my Axe-Fx is at our rehearsal space).

Hope that helps.

-Lopp
 
Thanks Lopp! That sounds similar to what I'm running too. Do you feel there is a certain warmth that is missing in the Axe? Or is it just my ears? :D
 
I agree with what Lopp said about the settings needing to be different in the Axe.

But I think that people need to take a different attitude in general with the Axe.
There's all this hype out there about how the Axe can sound exactly like all your favourite old tube amps.
Well, it *can't* sound *exactly* like them. Nothing will sound exactly like them except them. What is is. What ain't ain't.

What the Axe *can* do is to get a really good sound that is similar to your old favourite amp(s) and is also very musical and very usable.
It will also be about 90Xs more versatile than the original.

I used a Triaxis since 1993 (running into a Simul-Satellite w/EVM-12L) ) and owned a MKIV for few years in the middle of all that. I like my tones in the Axe better, for both clean and lead.

Also try using amp model Types that are non-Mesa to get the sound you want.
The Fusion amp Type sounds more like a Mark Series Mesa to me than he USA Lead or MK II C+ amp Types.
Parameter settings are much more like the real thing too.
 
gwertman said:
Thanks Lopp! That sounds similar to what I'm running too. Do you feel there is a certain warmth that is missing in the Axe? Or is it just my ears? :D
Click to expand...

What do you use to amplify/monitor the Axe with?

In my experience it sounds best through either:
1. A high quality ss power amp into a guitar cabinet with good speakers like EVM-12Ls. (Cabinet Block off on the Axe.)
or
2. Through a *really high quality* Full Range system. (with Cabinet Block on.)

Although lots of folks here swear by running the Axe into a tube power amp, personally speaking, I think that's a mistake (unless it's an audiophile oriented power amp with *lots* of headroom), unless you're after a really over-the-top effect.
 
If you turn the power amp sim off the USA Lead 2 should be nearly identical to the TriAxis. However, with the power amp sim on the power amp model has the typical Boogie power amp tone shaping.
 
joegold said:
What do you use to amplify/monitor the Axe with?
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the info! I'm using a Mesa 395 simulclass power amp and a 2x12 no name cabinet with vintage 30s. I'm pretty sure the 395 has a lot of headroom.

Aside from this, I'm mainly doing my tone testing with headphones. I had hoped to circumvent the power amp/speaker playing havok issue with my listening experiences. I'm accustomed to these headphones and I'm doing direct A/B/C comparisons between the Tri, the Quad and the Axe by putting the aforementioned pre's in the Axe loop so that I can hear the amp and cab sims in the Axe with my Mesa stuff. Does that make sense? Maybe I need to have a power amp only sim after the loop in this scenario. How do I do that?

I LOVE the Axe. LOVE IT. The Axe sounds better out of the box than the Mesa stuff. BUT - there IS a warmth that's missing and I'm sure EQing will end up being the fix.

Thank you again for your advice! :D
 
FractalAudio said:
If you turn the power amp sim off the USA Lead 2 should be nearly identical to the TriAxis. However, with the power amp sim on the power amp model has the typical Boogie power amp tone shaping.
Click to expand...

How do I turn off the power amp sim while leaving the cab sim active? Global settings? Thanks Fractal!!!
 
Your testing procedure is fine, but even the best headphones will sound way different than audio coming out of a speaker. But as far as A/B-ing your various preamps with the Axe's tone you should be able to make good judgements.

I hope you're trying out various Cab Sims. Don't just assume that because one of the Axe's Cab Sims has a name like some cabinet you are familiar with that that Cab Sim will be the one to nail your tone. Some of the Axe's Cab Sims sound very good for some things. some sound like crap to me for everything.
One of my favourite Cab Sims right now is an IR of a Palmer PDI-09 speaker emulator in its Normal position. It's in one of my User Cab slots. Some guys prefer using an actual Palmer PDI (or sim) rather than the Axe's Cab Block.
Have a look around this forum and the Net for all the cabinet IRs that are floating around. Most are crap, but there's a few good ones out there.

What type of speakers do you use with the Simul 395?
I guess weight and portability isn't a factor for you, huh?

If you find that the Axe is not nailing a tone that you absolutely need and one of these other preamps is nailing it for you, then you can always keep the old preamp and run it in the Axe's FX loop just like you're doing now.
For me, that was a selling point of the Axe. I knew that if I didn't didn't dig the Axe's amp sims that I could just use it for effects with my TA. But it turned out, for me, that I like the Axe's tones more than the TA's tones.

But I'm not a metal guy or a hard rock guy. I'm mostly jazz and fusion, so my tastes may be quite different from yours and I suspect from most folks here.
 
How do I turn off the power amp sim while leaving the cab sim active? Global settings? Thanks Fractal!!![/quote]

Press LAYOUT - Select AMP - Press EDIT - PG2 - Select SAG and turn it off.
 
gwertman said:
How do I turn off the power amp sim while leaving the cab sim active? Global settings? Thanks Fractal!!!
Click to expand...

You can defeat the power amp sims globally on the 1st page of the Global pages. This will have no effect on the Cab Sims.
You can defeat the power amp sims on a preset-by-preset basis inside the Amp Block by setting the Sag parameter to its minimum.
 
gwertman said:
Thank you everyone!

How do I add a power amp only sim? Is there a way to defeat the preamp sim?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The one thing the Axe doesn't do. Cliff has stated technical issues with defeating the pre-amp section.
 
ESP MM-270 said:
gwertman said:
Thank you everyone!

How do I add a power amp only sim? Is there a way to defeat the preamp sim?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

The one thing the Axe doesn't do. Cliff has stated technical issues with defeating the pre-amp section.
Click to expand...

So the trick is to find the cleanest preamp to use after the fx loop? I'm betting that's no easy feat.
 
Brian G said:
If you really need that (?) - try the Tube Pre.
Click to expand...

If by "that" you mean "defeating the preamp sim so you can use only the power amp sim", then using the Tube Pre Amp Type won't accomplish that. [If by "that" you mean something else, then sorry to intrude.]

The default parameters for this Amp Type have the Sag parameter at minimum, which defeats the power amp sim. So you can easily use this Amp Type as a preamp only sim.
Of course you can do this with any of the Amp Types if you want.
Eg. If you want only the sound of a Mesa preamp then simply turn the Sag parameter to minimum and that's what you've got.
And if you do want to use a power amp sim with the Tub Pre Amp Type then just turn the Sag parameter up.

But there is no way to use an external preamp, like a Triaxis, and run it into the Axe's power amp sim only.
It'd make the Axe way more versatile.
But evidently there are design reasons why Cliff can't do this.

Too bad.

And the OP should realize that when he's doing his A/B comparisons of his actual preamps with the Axe's preamps that for them to be meaningful he should defeat the Axe's power amp sim.
And testing like this will not give him a real feeling for how the preamps or the axe's virtual preamps will sound when he's using them in the real world, because in the real world he'll be running them into a real power amp + cab.

A more meaningful test would be to set up his power amp and cab and run his Triaxis and his Quad through it and then try to see how closely he can mimic those tones using the Axe's preamps only (i.e. defeat the power amp sims).
Another fair test would be to mic up his all-Mesa rig and record some tracks.
Then try to clone the same sounds with the all-Axe rig, direct-recording with the power amp sims and cab sims on.

But what the Axe will allow him to do, by switching the power amp sims on, that the real preamps will not allow for is to get the sonic effect of power amp distortion at low volumes.
If *I* was running the Axe through a tube power amp I'd have the power amp sims off unless I was specifically trying to elicit the sound of power amp distortion.
 
gwertman said:
How do I add a power amp only sim? Is there a way to defeat the preamp sim?
Click to expand...

Hey Gary,

Like everyone mentioned, you cannot defeat the preamp sim to just use the power amp sim. The best way for you to A/B/C the Axe-Fx, TriAxis, and Quad is to run each through your Mesa power amp, with the Axe-Fx power amp sims turned off (either in the global menu or by turning the sag to zero in the power amp section of a preset). That way you can pretty much try to match your tones as close as possible. (joegold gave some other good examples).

Once you have matched them, you can try to add additional "warmth" by adding the power amp section back in and tweaking some of those parameters. (Personally, I don't think the actual "warmth" parameter adds warmth the way I would define it, but you can experiment with all the parameters to hear what you get).

Also, I'm not too sure about how you will ultimately run your Axe-Fx and how much your Mesa power amp colors your tone, as adding the power amp sim back in and using a tube power amp will give you a kind of double coloration. However, keep in mind the Axe-Fx is flexible enough that you can experiment with whatever setup you want and let your ears be the guide.

FWIW, after tweaking it for a few months I got the Axe-Fx to a point of which I now prefer it over my Boogie amps.

-Lopp
 
Thank you everyone for your ideas. I've been doing my testing with a Mesa 395 Stereo Simulclass amp through a 2x12 closed back cabinet running 2 8ohm Vintage 30s. The global power amp and cab settings are bypassed. I'd should also mention that the tubes in my Tri and Quad are old so that may be part of why there are differences.

The Axe's preamps are simply amazing (regardless of whether or not they are supposed to be spot on to the pres they are modeled after) and there's really very little difference between the Tri's sounds and the Axe's Tri sounds. It's there (the difference) but very slight. So I'm moved on so to speak and I am now spending my time experimenting with the Axe's preamps and effects rather than 'cork sniffing' between the Quad, Tri and Axe.

Honestly, I've written 4 new riffs this week. I've never been so inspired. And I've never been this happy with practicing with headphones!
 
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gwertman said:
The Axe's preamps are simply amazing (regardless of whether or not they are supposed to be spot on to the pres they are modeled after)
Click to expand...

That's the way I feel too.

Frankly, the Triaxis and me was always a love/hate relationship anyway.
I think I used to tell myself that my TA tones were great just because it cost me so much!
And I didn't want to go back to non-programmable amps and there were very few choices for decent sounding programmable preamps/amps. So I kept using it for like 15 years.
The TA always had this edge in the highs that I could never quite get rid of. And it was hard to get a good bottom on the hi-gain sounds without using the Dynamic Voice (which I hated) or using an external EQ.

The Axe's Mesa amp types sound *very* Mesa-ish to me and are *way more* easy to tame.
Plus, now I've got all these other amp types to mess with too.
I've owned the Axe since November and I still haven't pegged all my tones yet but that's mostly because I'm not gigging enough. Things sound great at home but when I do get to a gig there's always something to be tweaked and no time to do it.
 
I used to have a Mark III before I moved on to a Quad rig, which I sold off soon after getting my Axe.

I dialed my USA Lead patches in basically by ear, just retaining the general concepts behind EQing the Mark stuff (i.e. the tonestack being pre not post gain). I run a PEQ after the amp block to do the 5-band thing. One thing I'm guessing about the Mark stuff is that what I'm doing in the Axe isn't necessarily a recreation of what gear I had before. The Mark III was a simul combo that I rarely got to crank, and in the Quad rig the only thing Mesa was the Quad itself. The Axe models on the other hand, I'm running with two different 4x12 IRs, and the power section in the amp block is turned up pretty high, both of which have a pretty big effect on the sound. So it wouldn't really have made much sense to me to start off trying to simply copy my settings over.

What headphones are you listening through? I've used headphones with my Axe (HD280 Pros, Extreme Isolation EX-29), but much prefer going through my monitors. The headphones colour the sound quite a bit.
 
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