Tone Stack and Presence realizations.

M

marvinx

Inspired
So i have concluded the following...

I believe the tone stack frequency may be the single most important parameter for changing the character of an amp.

When i first got the axe, i felt like most of the high gain amps sounded way too similar.

I find that by tweaking the tone stack the entire texture of the distortion changes significantly.

I also believe that some of the default values for the tone stack and presence frequencies may be off.

Tweaking some of these made them sound much more similar to the modeled amps.

For example the 5150 presence defaults to around 1khz, peavey's manual says 2khz.

I wonder if a carefull review of the default values would lead to even greater realism.

One thing is certain. Exposing the tonestack freq was genius.
~mx~
 
To be honest, I have never even tweaked that setting! I need to mess with it now that I can think of it as the 'character' knob. Thanks!
 
From what I've heard, Presence will be redone, in whatever way that is meant, in the next update. I can only guess that it'll be even more realistic, considering that that's the way it went over past updates (first there was only active, a more 'ideal' version of Presence and now we've got passive, which resembles more realistic scenarios).

One thing's for sure...I'm not tweaking any amptones until the next update since it may most likely be a waste of time ;)
 
marvinx said:
I believe the tone stack frequency may be the single most important parameter for changing the character of an amp.
One thing is certain. Exposing the tonestack freq was genius.
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I've often wondered how to interpret it. Back in the days of active tone controls, I assumed
that it was the frequency of the mid control, with the bass and treble spaced below and
above. Maybe this isn't even right; but whatever it was, it was presumably the same
for all the models.

Now, with the passive tonestacks, what does it mean?
 
The tone stack frequency is the frequency of the mid control in active mode. In passive mode the tone stack is frequency scaled by the ratio of the entered value to the default value. I.e., if the default value is 600 Hz and you change it to 900 Hz then the tone stack is frequency scaled by 1.5.

The passive tone stack response is an exact replica of a real tone stack. I actually solved the linear equations for the FVM tone stacks. It was a ridiculous amount of work.
 
The passive tone stack response is an exact replica of a real tone stack. I actually solved the linear equations for the FVM tone stacks. It was a ridiculous amount of work.
Click to expand...

I thought I had read otherwise, but the passive stack controls are interactive?
 
FractalAudio said:
It was a ridiculous amount of work.
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I think that is even an understatement...

more like an insanely ridiculous amount of time consuming work....

but much appreciated by myself and many others!
 
FractalAudio said:
The tone stack frequency is the frequency of the mid control in active mode. In passive mode the tone stack is frequency scaled by the ratio of the entered value to the default value. I.e., if the default value is 600 Hz and you change it to 900 Hz then the tone stack is frequency scaled by 1.5.

The passive tone stack response is an exact replica of a real tone stack. I actually solved the linear equations for the FVM tone stacks. It was a ridiculous amount of work.
Click to expand...

and its very much appreciated =).


its amazingly powerful.

I find it hard to get much of a useable tone with fryer model with the tonestack at default (which does seem accurate cuz i had the real thing and returned it lol), but when i tweak the tone stack value down, its glorious! (like 450- 500).

~mx~
 
fuzznut said:
The passive tone stack response is an exact replica of a real tone stack. I actually solved the linear equations for the FVM tone stacks. It was a ridiculous amount of work.
Click to expand...

I thought I had read otherwise, but the passive stack controls are interactive?
Click to expand...

The passive tone stack is an exact digital equivalent. So, yes, the controls are interactive.
 
FractalAudio said:
The passive tone stack is an exact digital equivalent. So, yes, the controls are interactive.
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That's great, very authentic! The OM is a little confusing then, below is an excerpt from the BMT parameter section:

Also, the tone controls do not interact like a typical amplifier. So when you turn the treble control the midrange and bass are not affected. This makes dialing in a certain tone easier and quicker than with a typical tone stack. This does not affect the voicing of the simulation in that the frequency response of the original circuit is always achieved however the exact setting of the controls will be somewhat different.
Click to expand...
 
gittarzann said:
hmmmm...very confusing...are you sure that excerpt is not about the active tone stack ?
Click to expand...

It sure sounds like it, doesn't it? But it doesn't specify which mode is being utilized. Cliff, perhaps you can clarify? The whole section...


BASS, MID, TREB - Tone controls. The tone controls in the Axe-Fx have up to twice the range of a typical amplifier. When a tone control is set to the 12:00 position (0.0 dB) it is equivalent to the simulated amplifiers control at 12:00. However, the boost cut range of the control is greater, +/- 12 dB, whereas a typical amplifier may have only +/- 6 dB or less. This allows you to get sounds, like heavily scooped mids or boosted treble, that normally wouldn't be possible.
Also, the tone controls do not interact like a typical amplifier. So when you turn the treble control the midrange and bass are not affected. This makes dialing in a certain tone easier and quicker than with a typical tone stack. This does not affect the voicing of the simulation in that the frequency response of the original circuit is always achieved however the exact setting of the controls will be somewhat different. In general the Axe-Fx tone controls are more sensitive than a typical amp and require less extreme settings to achieve the same sound. For example, if you set the treble to full on a British hi-gain amp, the corresponding setting on the Axe-Fx is about 5.0 dB. The advantage of this philosophy is ease of use plus more flexibility and wider range of tones. Adjust the tone controls slowly and listen carefully. A 1.0 dB adjustment can make a marked difference in the tone.
Some of the amps simulated do not have the full complement of tone controls. In those cases setting the control to 12:00 replicates the original. For example, some early amps did not have Mid controls. To capture the original faithfully simply set the control to ‘0’. Adjust the control as desired to achieve new and different tones.
Be careful in setting the tone controls as extreme settings along with high gain can cause pickup squealing or excessive noise.
Click to expand...
 
fuzznut said:
It sure sounds like it, doesn't it? But it doesn't specify which mode is being utilized.
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Yes, it does.

Cliff, perhaps you can clarify?
Click to expand...
He already did.

The whole section...
Click to expand...
No. Here's the current description:

"The active tone controls in the Axe-Fx have up to twice the range of a typical amplifier. When a tone control is set to the 12:00 position (0.0 dB) it is equivalent to the simulated amplifiers control at 12:00..."

"For those who prefer the classic passive tone controls that are found on most tube amps, the Axe-Fx has the option of using this style of tone control as well. Not just a crude shelving filter approximation, the Axe-Fx passive tone stack simulation exactly replicates the frequency and phase response of the classic passive tone stack."

I see no possible confusion in the above, and Cliff has confirmed its accuracy in this thread. If your manual is out of date, you can download a current one from the FAS website.
 
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