"Tone Matching" Preview

[jshirkey]

I don't see anything wrong with having "things" like Radley suggested. As a matter of fact a lot of real amps nowadays have parameters/settings like those and it is an easier/faster way of achieving the tone you are looking for. If for example you want your tone to be spongier, fatter, bloomier, ... would not be cool to have knobs named with the effect they produce that interact with the advanced parameters in the background so you don't have to know anything about how amp works internally? (i.e. http://www.sfdamp.com/images/product/SigX_Front-Detail.jpg)

I have to say that I find very useful the voicing parameter in the Axe.

I'd much rather have the amps' controls be named and behave like their real-world counterparts. If that means you need to learn a bit more about the "guts" of any particular amp and how it operates, so be it. But I don't need to have that kind of specialized knowledge to get a great tone out of my Tweed Bassman, for instance, so I'm not sure why it'd be a necessity for other amps.

 

[Artic Myst]

I'd much rather have the amps' controls be named and behave like their real-world counterparts. If that means you need to learn a bit more about the "guts" of any particular amp and how it operates, so be it. But I don't need to have that kind of specialized knowledge to get a great tone out of my Tweed Bassman, for instance, so I'm not sure why it'd be a necessity for other amps.

Sure, but we are not talking about basic EQ and gain. Probably if you wished to control how fat your amp sounds and they gave you the choice between having a knob that controls that or having to learn how to play with the guts inside to get the same result, you would choose the knob. It is just matter of making things simpler.

I am sure you can get an amp to sound with more or less clarity tweaking and combining different advanced settings but if you can have a knob that just does that for you why not? As long as you can choose one way or the other what's the problem?

At the end of the day most of us when we are looking for a tone we do it based on tone characteristics and not thinking on electronic components settings.

 

[electronpirate]

I'd much rather have the amps' controls be named and behave like their real-world counterparts. If that means you need to learn a bit more about the "guts" of any particular amp and how it operates, so be it. But I don't need to have that kind of specialized knowledge to get a great tone out of my Tweed Bassman, for instance, so I'm not sure why it'd be a necessity for other amps.

I wouldn't.

Fractal's take lets you do more than the original amps. You CAN dial it in like the originals, but you can 'mod' them here. I'd rather have that option, than be constrained by the 'exact' amp setup with no options to change those things that you might find lacking.

IMO.

Ron

 

[jshirkey]

I wouldn't.

Fractal's take lets you do more than the original amps. You CAN dial it in like the originals, but you can 'mod' them here. I'd rather have that option, than be constrained by the 'exact' amp setup with no options to change those things that you might find lacking.

IMO.

Ron

Right, but that's not what I said.

All I said was I'd like the controls to be labeled the same as the original amps. Knowledge of the internal workings of the amps would be great for deeper menu diving/editing, so you could "mod" them as needed. I'm not against having the options to tinker with the guts of the amp by using virtual knobs. I just don't think phony sounding labels for the process does anyone any favors.

 

[Radley]

A "clarity" knob shouldn't be needed if everything else works right, is modeled accurately, and sounds good. Or what am I missing?

Perhaps what you are missing is that you haven't heard it/used it? It is a very cool and useful thing to take some of the 'hair' off an overdriven sound without losing sustain or punch.

 

[FractalAudio]

"Clarity" is just a shelving filter (also known as a "Tilt EQ"). To recreate this put a Filter block before the amp block. Set the type to highshelf, frequency to 1kHz, Q to 0.5. Adjust gain as desired.

 

[zentman]

"Clarity" is just a shelving filter (also none as a "Tilt EQ"). To recreate this put a Filter block before the amp block. Set the type to highshelf, frequency to 1kHz, Q to 0.5. Adjust gain as desired.

Well , because there's nothing else to do (ahem ahem) I took your filter thing and put it in front of a Brit Preset of mine. Starts flat then an extreme -7.5db then a plus 5db. I did it on the extreme side so you could really hear what is being affected. BTW, though the middle one sounds dull next to the other two, by itself in my stage monitors, it's really fat and punchy.

 

[jshirkey]

Perhaps what you are missing is that you haven't heard it/used it? It is a very cool and useful thing to take some of the 'hair' off an overdriven sound without losing sustain or punch.

Fair enough. I'm only speaking for myself in saying I have no use for something like that. If other people do, cool.

 

[rickgk]

"Clarity" is just a shelving filter (also none as a "Tilt EQ"). To recreate this put a Filter block before the amp block. Set the type to highshelf, frequency to 1kHz, Q to 0.5. Adjust gain as desired.

I love it when we learn things like this..... I think it might be a very very useful tip if it works like radley suggests.
I have played with plenty of amp models that have better sustain than others but don't sound as clear as I would like. There is no way I would ever have thought to do this myself, but I would definitely have fiddled with a "clarity" knob.

 

[rickgk]

Well , because there's nothing else to do (ahem ahem) I took your filter thing and put it in front of a Brit Preset of mine. Starts flat then an extreme -7.5db then a plus 5db. I did it on the extreme side so you could really hear what is being affected. BTW, though the middle one sounds dull next to the other two, by itself in my stage monitors, it's really fat and punchy.

Patch please? All three sound great.

 

[electronpirate]

Right, but that's not what I said.

All I said was I'd like the controls to be labeled the same as the original amps. Knowledge of the internal workings of the amps would be great for deeper menu diving/editing, so you could "mod" them as needed. I'm not against having the options to tinker with the guts of the amp by using virtual knobs. I just don't think phony sounding labels for the process does anyone any favors.

You lost me. 'Phony sounding labels?

And reading over it again, it seems that's exactly what you said. The amps were modeled at a base level. Don't leave the TMB area and you'll have pretty much what the amp was designed for. Don't bother with the 'noise' if you don't like. 'Making it more clear' is not the point, as I can take pretty much any amp, and it will sound slightly different from amp to amp (ESPECIALLY if it has 'Marshall' on the logo'! Ack!) Now you have the option to change things to tweak your sound. Use smaller changes to imitate the original amp... But changing it from what Fractal does reduces our tonal options on a very large order...yes, we'd get simplicity, but is that what we purchased this for? I certainly didn't. I want quick access to good tone, but killer tone I know I'm going to have to work for.

This really goes back to the 'use your ears' philosophy. Turn all the TMB knobs down to zero, then dial each one of them up until you get what you hear in your head. REGARDLESS of whether it's sitting at 2 or 10.

IMO.

Ron

 

[jshirkey]

You lost me. 'Phony sounding labels?

I just meant labels like "clarity". I've got 17 amps, I think. None of them have a "clarity" knob; none of them need it. That's all.

But beyond the physical knobs of the amps, I was also saying that additional parameters that can change the amps' sounds ought (in my view, which, of course, is *just* my view) to have some correspondence to the circuit of the real amp, that way people who know what they'd like to mod or tweak can go in and do it (just as they would to the real amp) and know what they're getting into. Those without that specialized knowledge can ask someone who does, read some WIKIs, twist the knobs and keep close tabs on the results of their experiments...or, basically, learn as they go.

My .02, I guess. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[jshirkey]

.yes, we'd get simplicity, but is that what we purchased this for? I certainly didn't. I want quick access to good tone, but killer tone I know I'm going to have to work for.

I get killer tone when I plug straight into my amps; I don't have to work for it (aside from working very hard on my playing, of course...that's a given...and that's where I'd rather spend my time). I have enough knobs to twist, if I so desire--and I often do.

What you wrote above makes me wonder if the Axe is for someone like me. I may discover that it's not. But with everything that's coming with 6.0, I'm interested in giving it a shot.

 

[Radley]

"Clarity" is just a shelving filter (also known as a "Tilt EQ"). To recreate this put a Filter block before the amp block. Set the type to highshelf, frequency to 1kHz, Q to 0.5. Adjust gain as desired.

Respectfully Cliff, my ears are hearing it differently - I hear a full frequency response with the Clarity control regardless of the setting. Perhaps some harmonics are being selectively removed after the distortion phase? Or perhaps the 'direct' signal of the guitar is still being passed with full frequency response while the distorted signal is being filtered? I use pre-filters and EQs all the time before my distortion sources, and I really don't hear that same effect with the KPA Clarity control...

 

[electronpirate]

I get killer tone when I plug straight into my amps; I don't have to work for it (aside from working very hard on my playing, of course...that's a given...and that's where I'd rather spend my time). I have enough knobs to twist, if I so desire--and I often do.

What you wrote above makes me wonder if the Axe is for someone like me. I may discover that it's not. But with everything that's coming with 6.0, I'm interested in giving it a shot.

I might agree with you to a certain extent. I do have the same feelings about just plugging into a tube amp, 2 knob twists, and I can go all night. I've done the same thing with the Axe-II, just get a clear preset, put the amp in, RELEVANT cab, and go. Most of the amps you can get there in 2 twists.

But you have to think that any combo tube amp, any stack, ALREADY has the relevant cab attached, etc. Done for you. But I've never heard a JCM800 in a Guitar Center (outside of an isolation room) that sounded great. Unless I can get it stoopid loud, then I lose something. Same thing with an AC30, Twin, or Bogner. They're just not designed for that.

We're digressing here and OT, but the bottom line is get it LOUD with just default amp - cab, then go.

 

[Radley]

I get killer tone when I plug straight into my amps; I don't have to work for it (aside from working very hard on my playing, of course...that's a given...and that's where I'd rather spend my time). I have enough knobs to twist, if I so desire--and I often do.

What you wrote above makes me wonder if the Axe is for someone like me. I may discover that it's not. But with everything that's coming with 6.0, I'm interested in giving it a shot.

For me, the AFXII is a beautiful blend of basic solid amp sounds/controls, and a futuristic tool for creating many new sounds we have only heard in our heads - I think 6.0 will simplify getting great sounds for users like yourself.

 

[barhrecords]

For me, the AFXII is a beautiful blend of basic solid amp sounds/controls, and a futuristic tool for creating many new sounds we have only heard in our heads - I think 6.0 will simplify getting great sounds for users like yourself.

+1

From the description, the basic parameters will be like the original amplifiers panel controls.

But the advanced parameters take us way beyond that. And that is a good thing

For those that don't want to, just leave the advanced parameters alone, no harm no foul

And I would love a transient designer block, ala the SPL transisent designer, would be a great tool for sitting a track in the mix.

Richard

 

[hoth]

Even if we weren't getting tone matching and reworked modeling, I personally can't wait to 6.00 for primarily the realistic knob views. I am not used to making drastic tweaks on real amps but some of my AFII amps have a knob all the way up or down. For example, I had mids on the Dr. Z pushed all the way yesterday and I can't imagine doing that in real life. Looking at the knob my OCD just can't handle it . I may need stronger meds if 6.00 doesn't come out soon lol.

 

[blynd]

+1

From the description, the basic parameters will be like the original amplifiers panel controls.

But the advanced parameters take us way beyond that. And that is a good thing

For those that don't want to, just leave the advanced parameters alone, no harm no foul

And I would love a transient designer block, ala the SPL transisent designer, would be a great tool for sitting a track in the mix.

Richard

+1 for the transient block!

 

[Radley]

Sounds like a very useful feature!