Tone Match Clarification Question- Tone Match Block vs User Cab Block

CBoothe01

CBoothe01

Member
Hi Guys,
I attempted my first tone match this morning with really good results. Not exacly there yet, but pretty damn close, with really little effort. I know I can get closer.

But as I was playing with it I realized I need a clarification: Here's what I THINK I know- please confirm or correct as necessary...

If I tone match a preset and save the preset, the tone match block I replaced the cab with stays with the preset as the cab.

BUT: I want to try to use the tone match on another preset, I export the tone match block as a user cab and in the new preset, I insert the user cab, NOT a copy of the tone match block.

Am I right? I'm just a bit confused on why you need to export it to a user cab otherwise.

Thanks!
 
+1

I've read in another post that if you're using a FRFR setup you would need a cab as well as a TMA block. I'm not really sure. I thought that the TMA block would replace the cab block. Only luck I've had with saving the TMA block was to save it as a user cab then update axe-edit from hardware. I dunno....
 
I've got the best results thus far with AMP>CAB>TM

when its AMP>TM i think it puts a lot more work on the TM section and it sounds a little struggling and less natural- like the TM section is trying to do more work than it should
 
I have a somewhat similar question..
err, I think. Dumb question? maybe.

Will the TM block still function with an amp/power amp/cab setup (i.e. cab sims disabled?)

thanks,
case
 
caseygree said:
I have a somewhat similar question..
err, I think. Dumb question? maybe.

Will the TM block still function with an amp/power amp/cab setup (i.e. cab sims disabled?)

thanks,
case
Click to expand...

Good question man. I did the Ratt and Van Halen tonematches and thought they sounded great thru my headphones. As soon as I returned to my "normal" setup of a amp and cab, the results were not as good. I'd be curious to know if anything like keeping the cab block in, etc. would improve that.
 
CBoothe01 said:
I'm just a bit confused on why you need to export it to a user cab otherwise.
Click to expand...

IMO, the export to IR feature is so that you can also use other features of the CAB block, like air and delay in addition to the tone match.

For example, I have been using the workflow:

1. Setup AMP -> CAB.
2. Dial it in close to the reference.
3. Add TMA and disable the CAB block.
4. Do the tone match.

I end up with AMP -> TMA.

But if I wanted to use Air or Delay from the CAB block I can't. So if export the TMA to IR. I get those other features back.

Richard
 
I have tone matched with this setup:
Drive->Amp->TMA->Mixer->
Chain1: Cab->Output1(XLR)->Adam A7x
Chain2: Output2->Mesa 2:90->4x12 Mesa Cab

I've matched, Mesa IIC+ with John P and Mesa Red Rectifier with Killswitch (Adam D).
The result is really good!
 
Se7en said:
I have tone matched with this setup:
Drive->Amp->TMA->Mixer->
Chain1: Cab->Output1(XLR)->Adam A7x
Chain2: Output2->Mesa 2:90->4x12 Mesa Cab

I've matched, Mesa IIC+ with John P and Mesa Red Rectifier with Killswitch (Adam D).
The result is really good!
Click to expand...

Could you post that Killswitch tone match preset ?
 
I'm not clear on this either. It seems that if you're setting up w/ a cab first, then doing the tone match, you'd want to keep the cab after you do the match. Otherwise, the TMA block is now working on something different than when you did the match and it won't sound right. I'm not sure how it'd work w/ my poweramp/cab setup, I guess I'd do the match without the cab block since that's how I'm going to end up playing it. (I've only tried matching w/ headphones so far...)

The other thing is that if you import your match as a cab in another preset, won't it be bypassed if you turn off cabs globally?
 
What has been working for me lately is just creating the IR for the cabs and using it that way. One huge mistake that I subconsciously make is making adjustments in Axe-Edit. It always ends up screwy one way or another from the result. Anymore, if I'm working on a TMA/IRCab, I'll just leave Axe-Edit off until I have it stored so that there is no temptation.

I don't get why the cab is being added. It's not that it doesn't make sense, it's just that I don't know the answer. Possibly to give the TMA Block a larger "canvas" to work with? Naturally fill in frequencies so that the TMA isn't worked as hard? If that is the scenario, then isn't it easier to have the TMA Block to add the needed frequency levels than to have to lower/suppress the unwanted ones?

Iunno...
 
TM sounds different after export

Hey guys,
today i was exporting a TM to a User IR because i like all this stuff being organised in Axe-Edit. But somehow the preset running the exported IR sounds different to the tonematch. I checked all the parameters but can't find any mistakes.

My chain:
Amp > Cab > TM

During the tonematch process i bypassed the cab block. Like if i was doing a match eq with ozone. After the matching, which turned out in a great result i added some chorus and reverb and was very happy with the sound.

but when i do this:
Amp > Cab (Mono HiRes with exported IR, no mic) > TM (bypass) > Chorus > Reverb
all of a sudden it sounds different.

Any ideas? I'm gonna post some soundsamples maybe tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
Pat said:
Hey guys,
today i was exporting a TM to a User IR because i like all this stuff being organised in Axe-Edit. But somehow the preset running the exported IR sounds different to the tonematch. I checked all the parameters but can't find any mistakes.

My chain:
Amp > Cab > TM

During the tonematch process i bypassed the cab block. Like if i was doing a match eq with ozone. After the matching, which turned out in a great result i added some chorus and reverb and was very happy with the sound.

but when i do this:
Amp > Cab (Mono HiRes with exported IR, no mic) > TM (bypass) > Chorus > Reverb
all of a sudden it sounds different.

Any ideas? I'm gonna post some soundsamples maybe tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I've experienced the exported cab block being a few dBs more quiet than the TMA block (usually 3-4 dB).
You can compensate for that in the amp or cab block so your signal will hit the chorus and reverb with the same level as before.
Does this help?
 
I've had the best results with:

AMP -> TMA
Export to IR
AMP -> CAB with new IR

If I leave the CAB on, it gets way too muddy.

Also I've noticed the difference between the CAB and TMA and at first I thought it was more than just the level difference. Then I realized that you need to turn off speaker drive, mic to none, and room level to 0. This makes it closer but I'm still not convinced they are identical. The IR tends to be more useable but the TMA sounds richer yet muddier. I'm still experimenting.
 
thank you :) really helped me out. made the cab block 3 dBs louder and the preset works great now
 
Glad to hear that. There should be a hint on this in the tone match manual.

Maybe I'll put it in the bugs section.
 
Ideally I dont like having random Ir's all over the place, then I forget later which IR goes with which preset; I would prefer TMA per preset. Isnt there a formal consensus on this eg. the original intention, Cliff? (ie. TMA should be used alone or with cab block in frfr?)
 
RichHowe said:
+1
Click to expand...

+1
But you do have 50 IR slots that can be named. The selected IR(s) can be stored with the preset just like the regular ones so I don't see it as an issue unless you exceed 50 or if you use a lot of third party IR's plus the ones exported from TMA.

Also, I'm not sure if Axe-Edit can do this but maybe the IR could be stored with the preset (on Axe-Edit side). You could designate 4 user slots (to cover 2 cabs with 2 IR's each) that would always get loaded with the preset when you switch in Axe-Edit. That way, IR's and TMA would be preset specific. Unfortunately there wouldn't be a solution if you only use the front panel.
 
grape said:
+1
But you do have 50 IR slots that can be named. The selected IR(s) can be stored with the preset just like the regular ones so I don't see it as an issue unless you exceed 50 or if you use a lot of third party IR's plus the ones exported from TMA.
Click to expand...

Yes, but unfortunately all of mine are loaded with Red Wirez, Ownhammer, and a few custom user IRs. But why sacrifice any of those if you can just use the TMA block?
 
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