Tired of band discussions about my git sound

[vika12]

I've started running my FM3 into the front of my amp with extension cab at gigs. The amp has an FRFR setting so I use both amp and cab modelling from the FM3 along with FM3 effects. We mic the amps, except in quieter venues. I prefer this setup to using an FRFR speaker alone because it gives me more power / volume and more control on stage.

 

[Jens973]

While "mission accomplished" status

I had doubts while writing, but didnt come to mind, thanks

 

[2dor]

I had doubts while writing, but didnt come to mind, thanks

Oh, I wasn't poking anything in your spelling or anything; just came out of my hands that way. Anyway, what I wanted to say is the Negative Feedback bit really helps me out on a lot of occasions.
Happy Friday!

 

[Xcdchdchjjf]

Hate to say it, but that’s been my experience as well. Buy a higher end FRFR. The Headrush 108 and Alto TS310 just sounded like garbage to me compared to the SD Powerstage 200 + cab. Then I got an EV PXM 12MP and immediately stopped using the 2x12. WAY better than the Alto/Headrush. As good, but far more convenient than the 2x12 + Powerstage… But it’s like $900, so there you go.

-Aaron

Looked up the EV PXM 12MP, but its... a floor monitor?

Before returning the ISP Power Amp, I tested it into a cab, then using simply a tube amp with same size cab.

The tube amp was over 5 times as loud, as the ISP+Cab's max volume, without the tube even being turned up halfway.

So thats a concern right there...

 

[aflynt]

Looked up the EV PXM 12MP, but its... a floor monitor?

Before returning the ISP Power Amp, I tested it into a cab, then using simply a tube amp with same size cab.

The tube amp was over 5 times as loud, as the ISP+Cab's max volume, without the tube even being turned up halfway.

So thats a concern right there...

Weird. What was the impedance of the cab? Solid state amps put out a lot less volume as the impedance of your cab goes up. The EV Monitor is really loud to me. Maybe not Cranked 100 Watt Marshall loud, but comparable to a Twin running clean.

-Aaron

 

[sparkle]

Hi all,

I am using modellers since years - from Pod II, X3 to AX8 and now FM3. I am playing in a classic rock cover band, very old school and so the band members are (less me ;-) ). Yesterday we had again discussion, bandmates complain that my sound is not "cool", has no "punch" and is even too thin to start songs like "Highway to hell". To be honest I am tired of that kind of discussion and I am wondering if they are right or just deaf. Btw. my sound is always compared to the one from our other guitarist playing an Engl 120W Head with 2x12 Engl cabinet. I play through a Dynacord AXM12A and through PA Yamaha DXR Stuff 2x15" + 2x12" and a Behringer XR18 console.

I attached the preset that I am currently using, would be great to get some opinions here. AC/DC for example I play with Scene 2 plus overdrive activated.

Thanks so much in advance !

Just curious…are they unhappy with the “stage” sound or the FOH sound, or both?

 

[Jens973]

Just curious…are they unhappy with the “stage” sound or the FOH sound, or both?

First of all it was about stage sound. I am still experimenting with parameters but I was able to get my band mates more happy by increasing volume when I play guitar parts alone and some tweaks more mentioned here.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

The EV Monitor is really loud to me. Maybe not Cranked 100 Watt Marshall loud, but comparable to a Twin running clean.

Two of them side by side, or stacked, will get into the Marshall range nicely. And they’ll do it in stereo.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Looked up the EV PXM 12MP, but its... a floor monitor?

It’s a cabinet designed to have flexibility in how you use it.

I’ve used my two units side-by-side on their backs, stacked vertically on their sides, and one on its side and the other on its back on top of the first. They can fire forward at 90°, or upwards at 23° And you can definitely feel and hear them. Mine were keeping up with a 106 dB FOH system in a club nicely.

 

[chrisjnyc]

First of all it was about stage sound. I am still experimenting with parameters but I was able to get my band mates more happy by increasing volume when I play guitar parts alone and some tweaks more mentioned here.

Have you trued to plug the FM3 into the FX return of a tube amp\guitar cab. Checked a lot of boxes for me. Sits better in the mix, and no complaints on the tones.

 

[Jens973]

Have you trued to plug the FM3 into the FX return of a tube amp\guitar cab. Checked a lot of boxes for me. Sits better in the mix, and no complaints on the tones.

I started my journey of amp modelling to not have tubes in my signal chain anymore ;-) another reason was to not haul around heavy gear ;-) If I cant get my bandmates happy with Amp Sim + FRFR in long term I guess I would prefer to go back to pedals + tube amp to serve the band needs best. But as it seems now everybody is happy, lets see for how long ;-)

 

[MackieFX]

@Jens973 Did you ever try plugging your FM3 into your bandmates ENGL and using his Power Section + Cab?

 

[Jens973]

@Jens973 Did you ever try plugging your FM3 into your bandmates ENGL and using his Power Section + Cab?

No, havent tried this yet. I will do when there is the opportunity

 

[Greg Ferguson]

No, havent tried this yet. I will do when there is the opportunity

Let’s hope it blows away the sound he gets and it makes him a modeling convert instantly.

 

[MrBollie]

I used the FM3 into a SS power amp into a guitar cab for a couple of rehearsals with my band, except for the last rehearsal, on which I had to go back to pedals into a tube amp (Blackstar) that belongs to the rehearsal space. Now, those amps aren't the best out there and are being heavily used and abused. But somehow it was like coming home. The simplicity and most of all, the dynamic range that old-fart analog tube amp solution provides. On softer songs (Feeling Good), I would turn down the guitar's volume pot and if songs require more oomph, I turn it back up and kick on an overdrive (Killing in the name of). I don't even need to touch the amp's (master) volume and it provides the headroom if I need to cut through.

Sadly, I don't get that with the FM3 (or any other modeller) into SS into guitar cab solution. Took me until the last rehearsal to really realize it, even though it had already dawned on me. The initial idea why I got the FM3 in the first place was to use it whenever I need to go direct, while also having the same presets and tones during loud rehearsals and gigs. Nevertheless, I've now reached the point, where I keep asking myself: Why dealing with all that menu-diving and tweaking on the FM3 to maybe fix my issue, when it's so much easier to use and dial in a real amp and a couple of pedals?

 

[Gasp100]

Tried your preset.

The cab preamp is of no use here. You're competing with a powerful traditional guitar cab in the room. That's not something you're going to solve easily.

You are using a user cab, so we can't test / get the exact sound you have.

You have chosen one of the brightest Amp types in the unit without bottom end: the AFS. And you've increased Treble. Don't know what guitar you are using, but if you are using a Strat, that must be very harsh through FRFR.
Also because you are not applying High Cut in the Cab block. And the Tube Drive drive block, with Tone turned up, only increases that brightness more.

So I would do the following:

AMP:
Change your amp type to another less-bright Marshall with more bottom end.
Change Speaker Compression back to default.
If you're playing your FRFR system really loud with the band, set Output Mode in the Amp block to "SS PA + Cab" instead of "FRFR".

CAB:
Make sure you're using the right IR for the task.
Change High Cut in the Cab block to 5500 Hz. That will sound dull at home but makes you cut through better in the band.
Change AIR and ROOM LEVEL in the Cab block to zero.
Play with Proximity in the Cab block to add bottom-end thump, and make sure you're not cutting bass on your FRFR system.

Add to what Yek said, try and cleaner Marshall base tone and don't be afraid to get most of your gain from some of the wonderful drives.
I'm doing ALL of my testing through power amp + cabs (BAM200 small solid state power, works great!) and a 1x12 with Alnico Cream or Marshall 4x10 and getting great tones right next to a fantastic real amp. Plus, my DI sound into FRFR is really, really good.
I'm gigging alot and I really think you need a backline setup for the mids and punch that can BLEND with the FOH system.
This is especially try if you play with another guitarist.
When I use my traditional pedalboard + amp which is just as easy to setup, I use a Friedman mic no mo inline from one of the amps speaker outs. Sounds amazing!

 

[lauke-lux]

Nice tips there Yek !

AMP:
If you're playing your FRFR system really loud with the band, set Output Mode in the Amp block to "SS PA + Cab" instead of "FRFR".

Never noticed that option : great!

CAB:

Change AIR and ROOM LEVEL in the Cab block to zero.
Play with Proximity in the Cab block to add bottom-end thump, and make sure you're not cutting bass on your FRFR system.

Why Air and room level to zero ? (just for my culture!)
Proximity is a very strong and effective parameter....but use with moderation and adapt for bigger FOH soundsystems in order not to "walk on the bass player".
Small question : i tend to use stereo out, have a good soundon FOH but remarked that the mono out I use for my floor monitor doesn't sound really fine...any suggestions ? (I know...not my thread here...)