Tips for direct out sound, in ear monitors...

K

King Tone

Inspired
Hi, folks. I was just wondering if you guys had any commentary about the axe fx 2 running through in ear monitors. I am excited by the possibilities in many ways but I am also a little nervous that I will not be as happy with the sound as I would with a loud cab punching at me and no monitors. I plan on using the axe 2 direct but also still running a matrix gt800fx and a port city cab onstage for feedback interaction and as a backup if something happens. It just won't be the bonecrushing volume that it has been previously.

I have to say I have enjoyed the fractal rig quite a lot since the first time I used it but the only thing I had a little trouble with was getting the direct sound the way I want to hear it. I was just mic'ing the cab mostly until the last few shows. I thought what was coming from the live cab was great. The most recent updated cab irs etc, seemed to help a lot though. I mean I bought the whole set of redwirez ir's and downloaded many from the internet and I can still get just about the perfect sound with a real mic really fast and the zillions of ir's not so much so...maybe I just need to tweak more and keep working on it. I did make an ir of one of my own cabs and that was pretty good. I guess more experimenting with that...btw my cabs are 1x12 os Port City and regular 2x12 Port City. Both have g12-65 celestions. And I know that the new cab packs are out...maybe that would be a good move..? I am a little skiddish since I paid a lot of cash for the redwirez and I have been using the non-redwirez versions mostly.

I guess since I have written a novel I should sum it all up. I love the axe rig, probably the best tones I have ever had. I am a tech head so lots of tweaking is ok. I just hope the direct sound in the ears is going to make me happy. For the sake of my ears, and other people complaining about stage volume, plus if it is a bigger gig, etc, I know I need the ears. I have ultimate ears ue7's so they are the good ones.

Any tips for getting the direct sound it's best in , a mixer, ears, and recorded?
 
If you get satisfying tone with the Axe thru your Port City speakers i would invest time spending to find sweet spots for best IR captures and bring that way your real cabs into your in-ears and/or FOH. I use UE4Pro myself and found out, that tweaking the sound thru real cabs to satisfaction, this sound satisfy also listening to it thru In-Ears, if it`s well miced up. If then, it cuts thru the mix and the tone is alive in you in-ears, without the help of adding reverb - then you should have find a good micing position (or mic mix).
 
I have JH 16's and love using in ears but feel I definitely lose a little "bigness" in live situations. I will eventually move to running out1 for foh and out 2 for my in ears that way I can tweak for my in ears.
Moving to a stereo setup really helped a lot as well. Separation is key I think.
 
I run my Axe-FX II through in-ears all the time, and I'm very happy.

A good quality signal chain makes a big difference. I run my FOH in-ear feed (mono) and my Axe II (stereo) both into the 4 channel mixer that comes with a Shure PSM 400 hardwired pack. The mixer then goes into an old DBX IEM in-ear process that provides ambient reverb and a bit of limiting. The DBX then feeds my Shure beltpack. Not all headphone amplifiers are created equal, and the Shure is crisp and clear. The ambient reverb takes the dry FOH feed and give it some space and life.

The final piece of the chain, the in-ears themselves, are really important. They should be neutral, detailed and comfortable to wear. I realize you have the ue7's, but to complete the picture I have a custom set of Aurisonics AS2's that hit that mark for me. They have a huge, single 15mm dynamic driver and two special design BA tweeters to add some sparkle on the top end. There is no crossover, and therefore no crossover distortion. Dynamic drivers are known for having a cohesive sound and a solid, extended bass (some call it an "analog" sound). At $800 they are extremely well priced for customs. The ASG-2 is a universal version of the same product for $500.

Best wishes as your make the conversion.

Terry.
 
Fx II into right ear and the mix from the board on the left. Good in ears is a must, I am usuing a Westone 3 driver with a wireless JTS Siem-11r receiver. It made a huge difference in our sound... for the better. It's all in the signal chain too, there is going to be variances from board to board. I like the fact that I can eq to my liking in my ears. If I really want feedback I go in front of the stacks, just a thought!

It was also about carrying less gear to shows. Now everything is in one 6 space rack, I put the flight case (rack) on a guitar amp stand!

Hope this helps!
Scott
 
Three essentials for me:

1. Good custom IEMs (don't skimp) Alien Ears are reasonable
2. Aviom for monitor mix
3. Direct to FOH (no amps on stage)

Its like my own private Idaho
 
Thanks for the input guys. I am going to tweak for awhile and see what I get. I have ultimate ears ue7's...that won't be changing, and it should not have to...Mick Jagger ordered some just a day or two before me. So it is up to me to get the tone settings going. As far as IRs I have the factory cabs, my own, the whole redwirez set, and more random downloaded IRs. I hope to get things sounding great, but I think I want it to sound like listening to real cabs onstage and I am just not sure that will happen. I don't think this is a reflection on the axe fx, any regular amp rig may also sound the same in ears.
 
Hi

Of course good in ears are a must.

The piercing-in your face sound of a cab is not one I want. I want a sound that sit IN the music not Cutting through it. I want a rather "produced" sound. I find that the AXE gives me that.

With this approach I find that in ears are very useful. Both for playing the guitar AND mixing the guitar with the band/ playback. (I mix myself from the stage)

AAEN
 
Here's a twist then...

I'd never gone near to in-ears up until a couple months ago. Part of me believed that I'd just feel too separated from the audience & room - being the front guy, it's important to feed off people and comments etc. I also felt I'd miss that live 'interaction' with a monitor rocking your face off!

However, Big Joe Daddy on here was talking up the merits of in-ears to me - when I saw his band rehearsing with them and seemingly enjoying it all, I thought that we should at least give it a shot.

I set up a rough test session - got a headphone amp with multiple outs and we all brought along hi-fi ear buds just too see if we could actually get along with it or not. Right from the off, we all loved it and there's no way we'd go back.

Here's the thing, it didn't cost much to do BUT we all monitor / play with the main mix, not just our individual instrument - that's largely because we're completely self-contained and being all processors & samples etc, it's a very consistent sound and we therefore get to hear what the audience hears from an overall mix perspective. We also have a pair of ambient mics set up to bring the room and the audience into the ears.

I built custom cables that carry both the guitar and in ear signals back and forth so we don't use wireless. For earbuds, I initially used a £40 pair of Sennheiser CX275s and absolutely love them. Have never enjoyed any earbuds at all, but these are just brilliant. However, they're not designed for the 'over ear cabling' thing and can get tugged out pretty easily when my cable is held under the guitar strap and I move my head to a left / right / down extremity. Someone on another forum suggested that I try some MEElectronics M6 Sports Earphones and I have to say that they work great... incredibly so considering that they cost just £20 a pair! Yep, crazy! :lol

I would say that they are not as smooth in the high mid area as the Sennheisers, but seriously, the whole band sound is great through them and if we get a new desk in the near future with EQ on the mix sends, I'm sure the sound could be sweetened further. I do wonder how much better a £1,000 set of customs could be - maybe it is night and day, I don't know - but I'm not sure I need to know because I certainly have nothing whatsoever to complain about and going in-ears is possibly the best move I've ever made :encouragement:
 
I also go wired vs. wireless.

I use a small Mackie mixer on stage to blend a guitar split, vocal split and aux send from the desk. From the Mackie headphone out to the IEM's.

The splits give me "more me" control from the stage.

The difference between wired vs. wireless was a revelation to me.

Richard
 
Another thing that made a big difference for me was the "feel" of the cab. Even though I have ear buds in I can still feel my monitor if its by my feet. I put my rcf upright behind me to use as some stage full for the audience and by doing that I can feel the thump of my guitar while I have my in ears in. I've seen videos where John Petrucci does the same type of thing where he has subs and 2x12 monitors behind him for the feel and thump.
That feel is a great portion of what you're getting when you have a real monitor in front of you.
 
Cover'd,
I used several different kinds of IEM's until I finally made the investment and went with custom molds. The difference was night and day! Best investment I ever made. Whats the use of spending all this money on gear if you cant hear it like it was meant to be heard. Check our Alien Ears. After considerable research, I discovered that you can spend more but the return is marginal. I think I spent about $350 for triple driver customs.

The next best thing I did was invest in the Aviom system. It takes 16 channels from the inserts on the main board, converts them to digital and sends it to small individual mixers via cat 5 cable. I got the main unit used on ebay for $500 and each of the band bought their own individual mixers for $300 used on ebay. Slowly, the entire band converted to Avioms and we never looked back.

I plug my IEMs directly into my personal mixer and dial in my own 16 channel stereo monitor mix with exactly what I want. Because we no longer use amps on stage, I get complete isolation so its like playing in the studio except live....its complete eutopia.
 
Thanks for your comments axme :encouragement:

I can, of course, understand exactly where you're coming from, but I'm not sure that I'm actually missing anything now because the isolation is there, the lows are there, the clarity is there, the highs are there - and everything sounds great. If it was all a bit, well, "meh", then I've absolutely no doubt that I'd be searching for ways to make it all better, but it's great as is!

That's not to dismiss the thought that it could be 'even better' though... I've always been all for that ;)


Utopia indeed! :D
 
Cover'd

Are you running your in ear mix in stereo? Are you able to pan the instruments appropriately?

And as far as in ear buds go, I'd have to disagree with others regarding quality. I had alien ears, livewires and shure non custom buds. The choice to move from marginal quality to high end quality was an Enormous increase in quality and fullness to my tone.
Low end I feel is the main part of the tone that is missing. And the problem is that you don't even know when it's missing until you finally hear it. What I found you receive from higher end ear molds is a tighter mold. All my old custom molds had a mold that wasn't sealed completely. Just the slightest movement on the seal and the low end is changed completely. A good way to test your molds are to test them against high quality isolation studio monitors. The molds should be just as isolated if not more than those.
 
Cover'd said:
I can, of course, understand exactly where you're coming from, but I'm not sure that I'm actually missing anything now because the isolation is there, the lows are there, the clarity is there, the highs are there - and everything sounds great.
Click to expand...

I had been using a set of high end universal IEM's that were engaging and lively, and I was really enjoying them. Then I bought my customs. When I compared the two I discovered to my surprise that my old set were overly bright with peaky upper mids. The same was true with my studio monitors, which means I have some work to do on my room. I had to re-EQ all my patches, since my point of reference had been wrong. Now things sound better in our FOH.

For me, moving to a better set, customs in this case, was all about improved fidelity (i.e. reference quality).

Terry.
 
I agree about the importance of the molds. My first pair were done by an audiologist for $80.00 and they never sealed perfectly. I used a bite block because I sing and they told me that my jaw needed to be slightly open for comfort.....wrong.

My next pair I did myself with the mold kit from Alien Ears http://www.alienears.com/p/299/custom-molded-triple-driver-monitor except this time I didnt use a bite block and stayed perfectly still without even swallowing while the molds set. The difference between the two was astounding and the seal I get is air tight with complete isolation.

Tried the ear buds and was happy until I went custom and all I can say is night and day.
 
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