Timmy A/B with real pedal

Casimir

Casimir

Inspired
Hello All,

I absolutely love the FM3, but the one thing that does not have me convinced yet to sell everything else when I get an FM9 invite is the drives. To me it seems like all the fractal drives are darker and muddier than their real counterparts. I attached a quick sample of a open G chord with first my "clean" tone, then the fractal Timmy 2, then my real Timmy with the switch in position 2. I set all the knobs to noon on the pedal, and on the fractal model for the sake of comparison, so it is not how I would normally set it.

I can get it closer with EQ, but no matter how I set it, the real Timmy seems noticeably more clear and more open to me. I noticed the same thing with a few other drives I own that are not exactly the same as the fractal counterparts. My morning glory seems a lot clearer than the KOT or bluesbreaker models, and my Moonshine overdrive is equally clearer than the TS808 models. Does anyone know any tricks to get these sounding closer to the real things?

Also, I am very intrigued by the CNFB method that Cliff has been working on. Is this something that may be improved with the CNFB method?

This is not a dealbreaker for me, as everything else Fractal does I think is world class, and the worst case scenario is I just keep a couple drive pedals around with me when I get an FM9. I'm just curious as someone newer to the ecosystem if there are ways to improve the drive experience, or if there are improvements coming.

 
Remember to test everything at the same volume level. Even a couple DB difference can skew our ability to discern "better" even though we can't tell one's louder.
 
Ya, I might try adjusting the level on the model tomorrow to see if that was the issue. This test just had every control that existed on the pedal at noon. There may be some difference between the level control of the model and the volume control of the pedal.
 
If you had posted this clip with a headline of "Listen how close the FM3 is to my real Timmy" I would have thought "Dang, that's a great model. Just need to nudge 250Hz down a little and maybe add a tiny bit of highs." The way it recreates the character of the distortion is amazing to me. I love the community of folks that dive deep into drive pedals, but I never got into it - as long as a drive gave me 5db, mid honk, and cut out the boom, I was good to go. Basically anything green. Good luck with this pursuit!
 
I would also add that the Morning Glory (I have the V4) is absolutely nothing like the King of Tone (I have the higher gain red side). I don't know how the actual Bluesbreaker compares, but the character between the KoT, Morning Glory, or even the Wampler Pantheon (which I've read is supposed to do that Bluesbreaker thing) are all vastly different to the point of wondering why they're often compared; it's like comparing the Fuzz Face to a Ibanez TS808 - Can you do it? Sure - but it's not like comparing a TS808 to a BYOC version of a TS808 lol.

I would say the KoT in the Fractal is pretty damn close to the real KoT; good enough that I stopped using my KoT.

But yeah; try the other Timmy model and see if it's closer to what you're expecting. I would send Cliff my Timmy V3 15th anniversary edition if he'd model it ...and if I'd get it back lol!
 
FractalAudio said:
You're using the wrong model. With the switch in the middle (which I'm assuming is what you mean by "position 2") you would want the Timothy 1 model.

Switch Up: Timothy 2
Switch Middle: Timothy 1
Switch Down: Timothy 3
Click to expand...
Thanks for this info, I had made the incorrect assumption that 1 was top, 2 was middle, and three was down. I'll give this another go tonight with the Timothy 1. The work you guys do is world-class, and in general I think a lot of the effects on the unit are better than anything that can be bought in pedal form. I'm still just working through the drives looking ahead to when I get an FM9.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
I would also add that the Morning Glory (I have the V4) is absolutely nothing like the King of Tone (I have the higher gain red side). I don't know how the actual Bluesbreaker compares, but the character between the KoT, Morning Glory, or even the Wampler Pantheon (which I've read is supposed to do that Bluesbreaker thing) are all vastly different to the point of wondering why they're often compared; it's like comparing the Fuzz Face to a Ibanez TS808 - Can you do it? Sure - but it's not like comparing a TS808 to a BYOC version of a TS808 lol.

I would say the KoT in the Fractal is pretty damn close to the real KoT; good enough that I stopped using my KoT.

But yeah; try the other Timmy model and see if it's closer to what you're expecting. I would send Cliff my Timmy V3 15th anniversary edition if he'd model it ...and if I'd get it back lol!
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I just knew the KoT and Morning Glory were based off the blues breaker circuit. That is the reason I only recorded the Timmy, since that is the only pedal I have that is a direct one to one. My point with those pedals is that I saw the same theme of the model being darker with less clarity, which seemed off to me with how insanely good most of fractals effects/models are. I'm sure I could tweak it to get it closer, but I think the goal of the model is to sound the same at the same settings as the real pedal.
 
Casimir said:
Fair enough, I just knew the KoT and Morning Glory were based off the blues breaker circuit. That is the reason I only recorded the Timmy, since that is the only pedal I have that is a direct one to one. My point with those pedals is that I saw the same theme of the model being darker with less clarity, which seemed off to me with how insanely good most of fractals effects/models are. I'm sure I could tweak it to get it closer, but I think the goal of the model is to sound the same at the same settings as the real pedal.
Click to expand...

AFAIK the Morning Glory is based on the Marshall Guv’nor.
 
FractalAudio said:
You're using the wrong model. With the switch in the middle (which I'm assuming is what you mean by "position 2") you would want the Timothy 1 model.

Switch Up: Timothy 2
Switch Middle: Timothy 1
Switch Down: Timothy 3
Click to expand...
To follow up, I tried out the Timmy 1 tonight, and it was certainly a lot closer as a starting point. It was still inherently darker, but I was able to get it close enough with the treble/bass cut controls that the difference between the two was negligible. For reference, to match the cuts at noon on the real pedal I had to set the bass cut to 6.8, and the treble cut to 1.6 to tone match my specific Timmy.

I am curious if my reference pedal might be slightly different from Fractals, seeing as they are hand made pedals and might all sound different. I think the Timmy evolved over time, which might also account for some differences. In the shootout that was posted earlier today, if the fractal model is sample 1, then they 100% nailed their reference tone. It also makes me wonder if the reference tone for the modeler in sample 3 had a reference closer to my Timmy, as it seemed to have a closer inherent character to mine.

One final note, after tone matching the fractal version to mine, I had a ton of fun playing with the Timmy model tonight, and ultimately, that is all I could ask for. Thanks everyone for the feedback, and thanks Cliff putting the shootout together, and totally owning me.
 
yek said:
AFAIK the Morning Glory is based on the Marshall Guv’nor.
Click to expand...
Not to get too far off topic, but the Morning Glory is an almost part-for-part copy of the Bluesbreaker. IIRC, the main differences are a "presence" switch that adds a 470pf cap to the feedback loop of the second gain stage and a clean JFET gain stage right before the output.
 
pedalbuilder said:
Not to get too far off topic, but the Morning Glory is an almost part-for-part copy of the Bluesbreaker. IIRC, the main differences are a "presence" switch that adds a 470pf cap to the feedback loop of the second gain stage and a clean JFET gain stage right before the output.
Click to expand...

Correct, I mixed the Angry Charlie and Morning Glory.
 
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