This week I compared - AxeIII/Boss GT1000/Kemper/Helix Floor

[laxu]

I also felt Cortex, when I shot captures, was pretty good compared to what else is out there that has such a function. I was happier with the results of Cortex capture vs Kemper profiling, especially for some kinds of playing. But I must say that neither were "dead on" in terms of feel for me.

I don't have a lot of experience with the Kemper (just never cared for the toaster and have no interest in Stage) but I felt the QC got "not exact but close enough to not care".

And that's kinda how I feel about a lot of the other modelers on the market. I've tried the Strymon Iridium through my FM3 flipping between the models in each and yeah, the FM3 is a bit more complex but the Strymon also sounds really good, again putting me in the "I don't care, it sounded good and felt good to play" camp. I think a lot of this accuracy discussion misses the forest for the trees.

For me the goal is just to have tone and feel that I enjoy playing and I've gotten that through a lot of units. I have my preferences for form factors and features and that's why I have kept my FM3 over the competition. I'm even considering picking up a used Axe-Fx 3 as the FM3 is just on the edge of underpowered and my situations might change for a few years with less chance to use my real cabs and play at loud volumes.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

The day they release a kemper 2 with something more natural maybe it will be better

It would be cool to see that, even though I highly doubt it's gonna happen, considering how averse I feel the company has been to such feedback about profiling, and also how current profiling is quite satisfactory for so many users. It would be funny for Kemper to suddenly sell an improvement, especially considering previous and current rhetoric.

But if it were to happen, that would be very cool for sure.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

For me the goal is just to have tone and feel that I enjoy playing and I've gotten that through a lot of units. I have my preferences for form factors and features and that's why I have kept my FM3 over the competition. I'm even considering picking up a used Axe-Fx 3 as the FM3 is just on the edge of underpowered and my situations might change for a few years with less chance to use my real cabs and play at loud volumes.

I can understand that the differences for many are small enough to where they don't matter, for both cortex and Kemper.

The question of "what matters" or "what should matter" is an interesting one to ask. Quite possible that after some consideration some become less picky over arguably little nuances.

But there's still something about a tone feeling more "authentic" or accurate to play through that is meaningful to me -- perhaps because it just feels better to play through.. for whatever reasons that is.

When I dig into a note, and the amp sim reacts very close to what I'm used to with VH4, or an amp I really really like to play through... that's nice

 

[laxu]

I can understand that the differences for many are small enough to where they don't matter, for both cortex and Kemper.

The question of "what matters" or "what should matter" is an interesting one to ask. Quite possible that after some consideration some become less picky over arguably little nuances.

But there's still something about a tone feeling more "authentic" or accurate to play through that is meaningful to me -- perhaps because it just feels better to play through.. for whatever reasons that is.

When I dig into a note, and the amp sim reacts very close to what I'm used to with VH4, or an amp I really really like to play through... that's nice

I'm not saying chasing accuracy is not a valid goal. But it's just not a particularly useful goal for us end users. I will gladly leave modeler developers to chase that stuff and just enjoy the fruits of their labor without worrying if it's 1:1 or not as long as it sounds and feels good to me.

 

[Dimi Guitar]

I'm not saying chasing accuracy is not a valid goal. But it's just not a particularly useful goal for us end users. I will gladly leave modeler developers to chase that stuff and just enjoy the fruits of their labor without worrying if it's 1:1 or not as long as it sounds and feels good to me.

I think some care about "authenticity" because they know how the gist of a given amp model feels like, love it, and expect it from an amp sim.

And then there's others who are more so after some kind of historically accurate replication of sorts.. for its own sake, or other reasons. And the two probably get mixed up in various ways also.

I understand your approach. And I think Kemper and cortex can definitely capture quite a bit of that "core amp model gist", for that matter.

 

[Orvillain]

I am indeed THAT guy!

I agree with everything you said. Think we're talking about the same thing, just using slightly different words to describe it.

 

[My name is mud]

If the goal is to not bring your amp on stage, all the modelers does that already . Then when you record or play with it at home, spent 2000, you want more than a tool that « does the job » . Everything can do the job if you are a good player, I remember talking with cradle of filth guitarist after show and they use 2 mooer pedals in the console !!! I was . The radar and a preamp one. And it sounded good ! These pedals are so tiny .

Concerning kemper I m surprised that they don’t release another one already . Or they continue to sell a lot and so « if it sell good it’s good »(like gta 5) . But they have a boulevard of improvements in front of them .
If they do a dual profiling for example , and a little something to stop this synthetic thing it will do a earthquake in the modelers world. Except if cliff does it before them hehe . But we know that profiling is not something that they care about here . Until they will add it in a future update or axe 4 hehe

 

[Orvillain]

I'm not saying chasing accuracy is not a valid goal. But it's just not a particularly useful goal for us end users. I will gladly leave modeler developers to chase that stuff and just enjoy the fruits of their labor without worrying if it's 1:1 or not as long as it sounds and feels good to me.

I don't think it needs to be a zero sum game - there are multiple overlapping goals that have differing strengths at varying times. Sometimes I care more about this than other times, and it isn't like I have just one viewpoint on accuracy.

What matters at the end of the day is if something is inspirational to play, and sometimes the Kemper isn't for me.

I just killed 2 hours playing "virtual" piano in the form of Native Instruments Noire; I didn't care if it wasn't a real piano, because it is just so damn expressive and inspiring to use!

 

[Dimi Guitar]

Concerning kemper I m surprised that they don’t release another one already . Or they continue to sell a lot and so « if it sell good it’s good »(like gta 5) . But they have a boulevard of improvements in front of them .
If they do a dual profiling for example , and a little something to stop this synthetic thing it will do a earthquake in the modelers world. Except if cliff does it before them hehe . But we know that profiling is not something that they care about here . Until they will add it in a future update or axe 4 hehe

How many people would notice the improvement to the "synthetic" Kemper thing though?

I don't know. Because not many profile their amps. And the narrative that it's all dead on perfect has been quite strong for a long time even among some profile sellers (whether they're being honest about their views.. that varies imo, having had a lot of private discussions).

And many of the people who do profile their own amps are very happy with the results. Some of them don't spot any differences, others do -- and for many of those that do, innacuracies seem fairly negligible/unimportant.

(Obviously they do matter to me, especially those affecting high gain mute type of playing).

To be frank, I do think there's folk who don't even profile their amps, do feel there's a weird sameness to profiles, but can't quite put their finger on it.

But overall I doubt improvements in profiling would cause a very strong market reaction. Dual profiling (I assume you mean running dual profiles at the same time) may make a bigger difference perhaps.