The Illusion of "Grainy Digital" Sound

J

JoeDeLano

Member
I have noticed that it is very possible to stumble upon sounds that are reminiscent of other digital modelers. These sounds often
even possess the perceived imperfections that are often associated with modeling units

I DO NOT believe that this is because the Axe-FX is, in fact, a digital device. It just seems that it is so powerful
and the range of sonic possibilities is so broad that it is entirely possible to dial in these "perceived imperfections".
And add to that the potential for almost anything you would, would not, or never knew you wanted or did not want to hear…. ha ha

A few questions for you Axe-Fx veterans out there:
Is there a more intuitive or quicker method of avoiding these less desirable sonic qualities from residing in our patches?
I have found many solutions of my own, but I wonder if there may be easier fixes or tricks.

I would a describe few of these characteristics as:
-Fizziness
-Fizziness paired with midrange boxiness
-Lack of headroom
-Thin and fragile sounding
-Artificial feel when playing
-Unnatural and/or artifical sound quality
-Digitial, synth-like lead tone

Are there certain parameters that are more suited to these specific qualities?

Perhaps the tone matching would help make this mostly irrelevant.
 
The only time I get a nasty digital sound with the Axe is when that's what I'm going for. Are you going FRFR, or do you have an actual amp/cab that you're using in conjunction?
 
JoeDeLano said:
I have noticed that it is very possible to stumble upon sounds that are reminiscent of other digital modelers. These sounds often
even possess the perceived imperfections that are often associated with modeling units


A few questions for you Axe-Fx veterans out there:
Is there a more intuitive or quicker method of avoiding these less desirable sonic qualities from residing in our patches?
I have found many solutions of my own, but I wonder if there may be easier fixes or tricks.

I would a describe few of these characteristics as:
-Fizziness
-Fizziness paired with midrange boxiness
-Lack of headroom
-Thin and fragile sounding
-Artificial feel when playing
-Unnatural and/or artifical sound quality
-Digitial, synth-like lead tone
.
Click to expand...

As a potential buyer, I'd be grateful if you'd follow up on this thread. If/when you come across sounds like the ones you describe above (and which, in the past, have sent me running back to my tube amps for cover), would you be so kind as to state whether or not you were able to fix the problem(s) using any of the means that Yek suggested?

To me, the sounds you describe above are 100% associated with digital modelers. However, I've heard great clips of the Axe II, so I know there are plenty of good tones to be found in it. But I'd still like to know if you have issues with any of the above types of sounds--which amp models/settings, etc.

Thanks in advance.
 
I can make a lot of great sounding tube amps sound crappy with certain settings too.

This is a pretty subjective topic. I don't think we'll be able to draw too many conclusions as to which settings sound "bad".

The one thing I think most of us can agree on is that as the Axe-FX II firmware continues to improve, the "default" settings for each amp model are more and more commonly accepted as sounding good and "easy to dial in". I think on a lot of amp models you'd have to use some pretty extreme EQ settings or a majorly mismatched IR to get some of "bad modeler" qualities that you describe.
 
Fizziness

I have been reading about harshness and fizziness for months now. There are really two camps. People who like the fizz as being representative of a real world gainy amp. Others want little or no fizz in a gainy amp sound so that it sounds more like a smooth studio recorded mid to high gain amp. I greatly prefer the studio non fizzy sound and spend a lot of time trying to dial out harshness. It sure would be nice if we had two default setups for each mid to high gain amp to accomplish this effect. I have found that putting a PEQ block after the amp to block the highs is effective, but then sometimes you lose the bite on the high end and you have to graphic EQ some of it back in. Secondly on the amp block I turn off grid modeling, and turn up triode hardness. Turn down high frequency in the amp block as well.

Some people seem to think you can dial in a perfect amp sound in ten minutes with the new Axe II. I completely disagree - if you don't want fizz, you will be spending hours. I love the product and I have the Ultra, the II, and the MFC. I spent a lot of money with Fractal. But it sure would be nice if there was a way to get amp block presets dialed in by experts who know how all the controls work to meet the needs of both kinds of customers. The real amp sound contingent seems happy, but the smooth amp folks struggle. Thats my opinion.
 
Here's what I've been doing to dial in pretty much what you're talking about. I use the high cut in the cab or amp block around 6-10kHz adjusted to flavor. I mess with either with no real rhyme or reason, but this basically eliminates the need for an extra PEQ even though I will use one of those at the end sometimes if I feel extra fancy. Anyway in order to get back some of that bite you are talking about I will boost somewhere around 1.5kHz to 2kHz area in the amp block's speaker tab. A little goes a really long way here so it doesn't take much, but that's the frequency that I find brings a lot of what I think that you are talking about and it doesn't require a lot of extra blocks and crap. That is probably my favorite tab right now.
 
Is there fizz in the Plexi model? I have a Germino Lead 55. No fizz to be found in that amp. I don't know about the real-world fizz levels of any of the higher gain amps, since I don't own any.
 
I actually turn the 'Hi Freq' parameter UP in the speaker tab to get rid of some of the harshness, not sure why that seems to work, maybe it is pushing some of the 'Hi Freq' peak out past the low-pass filter cut-off. But that mixed with the presence and Hi Cut parameters usually get me to where I need to be.
 
shemihazazel said:
The only time I get a nasty digital sound with the Axe is when that's what I'm going for. Are you going FRFR, or do you have an actual amp/cab that you're using in conjunction?
Click to expand...

At the moment I'm either running into my iMac and out through Yamaha HS80's.
Or into FX return of my Mesa Mark V (Cab sims off) Orange 4x12 and/or 2x12.
 
guitar32 said:
I have been reading about harshness and fizziness for months now. There are really two camps. People who like the fizz as being representative of a real world gainy amp. Others want little or no fizz in a gainy amp sound so that it sounds more like a smooth studio recorded mid to high gain amp. I greatly prefer the studio non fizzy sound and spend a lot of time trying to dial out harshness. It sure would be nice if we had two default setups for each mid to high gain amp to accomplish this effect. I have found that putting a PEQ block after the amp to block the highs is effective, but then sometimes you lose the bite on the high end and you have to graphic EQ some of it back in. Secondly on the amp block I turn off grid modeling, and turn up triode hardness. Turn down high frequency in the amp block as well.

Some people seem to think you can dial in a perfect amp sound in ten minutes with the new Axe II. I completely disagree - if you don't want fizz, you will be spending hours. I love the product and I have the Ultra, the II, and the MFC. I spent a lot of money with Fractal. But it sure would be nice if there was a way to get amp block presets dialed in by experts who know how all the controls work to meet the needs of both kinds of customers. The real amp sound contingent seems happy, but the smooth amp folks struggle. Thats my opinion.
Click to expand...


I agree. I have yet to find myself happy with a patch without spending an hour or two tweaking it. And I have to have separate patches for live and recording in order to be satisfied. Also with so many options to tweak, It is hard to know all of the ramifications of each adjustment. I often find after 15minutes of tweaking and then listening to my old settings that I have sometimes gone backwards. And some of the suggestions seems to have side-effects on the tone beyond just removing fizz.

That said. I seem to always get pretty close to where I want to be. But the workload can be a bit exhausting if you're a perfectionist.
I think there should be more detailed explanations of how each parameter affects the sound. Easier or one parameter fixes for
these issues would be amazing….

Anyone with bad ear for tone can put hundreds of youtube videos up. That's just bad PR for Fractal and perpetuates the "digital myths".
If I were a fractal employee, I would be making greater ease of dialing in tones a priority.
 
jshirkey said:
Is there fizz in the Plexi model? I have a Germino Lead 55. No fizz to be found in that amp. I don't know about the real-world fizz levels of any of the higher gain amps, since I don't own any.
Click to expand...

I've owned that amp. No fizz.

BUT...

...put a SM57 on it close mic'd and... FIZZ.

JoeDeLano said:
I agree. I have yet to find myself happy with a patch without spending an hour or two tweaking it. And I have to have separate patches for live and recording in order to be satisfied. Also with so many options to tweak, It is hard to know all of the ramifications of each adjustment. I often find after 15minutes of tweaking and then listening to my old settings that I have sometimes gone backwards. And some of the suggestions seems to have side-effects on the tone beyond just removing fizz.

That said. I seem to always get pretty close to where I want to be. But the workload can be a bit exhausting if you're a perfectionist.
I think there should be more detailed explanations of how each parameter affects the sound. Easier or one parameter fixes for
these issues would be amazing….

Anyone with bad ear for tone can put hundreds of youtube videos up. That's just bad PR for Fractal and perpetuates the "digital myths".
If I were a fractal employee, I would be making greater ease of dialing in tones a priority.
Click to expand...

Watch my video on dialing the Axe-FX II.
 
Scott Peterson said:
I've owned that amp. No fizz.

BUT...

...put a SM57 on it close mic'd and... FIZZ.



Watch my video on dialing the Axe-FX II.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I really prefer to mic amps at least 6-8 inches or so away from the grill, often with two mics--maybe one even further back--for the very reason you mention.

Been watching your vids...great stuff. Thank you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom