Table: amp settings, depending on power amp and speaker

I think I recall Cliff saying that Current Feedback amps, like the Power Stage, should not use the SS Pwr Amp + Cab setting.
 
I think I recall Cliff saying that Current Feedback amps, like the Power Stage, should not use the SS Pwr Amp + Cab setting.

Cliff wrote about Class-D "current feedback" amplifiers and didn't mention the Power Stage. The PS is Class-D but is it based on current feedback? I don't know.
 
Afaik every class D amplifier uses current feedback, but since I only touched the topic I am open for corrections.
 
I think I recall Cliff saying that Current Feedback amps, like the Power Stage, should not use the SS Pwr Amp + Cab setting.

Cliff wrote about Class-D "current feedback" amplifiers and didn't mention the Power Stage. The PS is Class-D but is it based on current feedback? I don't know.

Afaik every class D amplifier uses current feedback, but since I only touched the topic I am open for corrections.

Any updates on this? (ie. should SS Pwr Amp + Cab be used on the Power Stage?)

Thanks.
 
Any updates on this? (ie. should SS Pwr Amp + Cab be used on the Power Stage?)

Thanks.
Just found this patent from icepower, it seems their design corrects most issue of typical class D current feedback amplifiers, including output impedance and load impedance effects on the frequency response.

https://patents.justia.com/patent/8013678

So, if what I could understand with my limited knowledge on the matter is right, I'd say you can set it to SS PA + cab. That's what I do anyway and it sounds right to me.
 
Err....I use a CLR or floor monitor for stage amplification on OUT2 mono and use OUT1 to PA; what would be the recommended settings ?
 
FRFR speaker only = any powered FR monitor
SS PA + FR speaker = passive FR monitor + separate SS power amp, such as Matrix.
Would this also mean passive studio monitors with SS power amps driving them?
My mains are like this. I just keep everything FRFR for my studio presets and haven't tried using the SS PA + FR speaker and not had any issues switching between my powered studio near fields and my passive mains as far as sound goes. Both sound as they should to me. I guess I will have to try it on my mains and see if I notice any difference.
 
I made a table that shows the recommended (AFAIK.) Amp and Cab settings, depending on the amplification method.

Let me know if I got something wrong.

View attachment 104834
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In this table, FRFR as well as SS PWR Amp + FRFR have identical settings.

Wouldn't it be clearer to eliminate the FRFR only column since all speakers need some flavor of power amp to drive them?
 
Stupid question.....
What about through headphones?
And a CAB with a FR Live Response speaker like the Celestion?

I do have powered FRFR, and Matrix PA and CAB with regular guitar speaker.
 
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I was never able to find a definitive answer on the ideal settings for a Fryette Powerstation through a regular guitar cab.
 
I was never able to find a definitive answer on the ideal settings for a Fryette Powerstation through a regular guitar cab.
That is my setup too besides studio monitors. I assume that would be considered a Neutral Power amp. So I would use “Tube PA (Neutral) + guitar speaker.” I believe you would want to keep the power amp modeling on in this case.
 
That is my setup too besides studio monitors. I assume that would be considered a Neutral Power amp. So I would use “Tube PA (Neutral) + guitar speaker.” I believe you would want to keep the power amp modeling on in this case.

That’s what I’ve pretty much settled on. It’s just confusing because there isn’t a definitive response from Fractal on which settings are best for that setup. Even though it’s a very common one. And there’s even kind of a disagreement in this thread.
 
I got better results using speaker impedance curve that closest matched my real cab no matter which poweramp I used.

Reference setups:

Real ampClosest amp model(s)Real cabSpeaker impedance curve
Bogner Goldfinger 45 SLSuper Verb, Plexi 50W, Brit 800, Shiver LeadBluetone 4x10 Celestion 10" GreenbacksBrit JM45 4x10
Victory VC35AC20 12AX7 TrebleTubeTown 1x12 Celestion Alnico GoldAC20 1x12

I tested this with two poweramps:
  • Fryette Power Station 100 ("neutral" 100W 6550 tube) using line-in
  • BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition (subminiature tube -> 100W Class D SS) using fx loop return
For reference tone I used my favorite settings on each real amp and tried to match them as best as I could using the amp model settings. There's multiple listed for the Bogner because depending on which channel is used and switch settings it can sound similar to all of those.

The comparisons were done at lowish band volumes and also compared without using the loadbox of the Fryette so I could gauge direct to cab behavior at a bit lower volume. Firmware on Axe-Fx 3 was 19 or 20 at the time I think. To me the amp models started to feel right after I set the closest matching impedance curve. Otherwise noticeably different were the ones that default to 4x12 impedance curves.

This is no way scientific of course but just based on how I perceived the sound and "feel". No longer have either tube amp so I can't give it another go.

YMMV.
 
I got better results using speaker impedance curve that closest matched my real cab no matter which poweramp I used.

Reference setups:

Real ampClosest amp model(s)Real cabSpeaker impedance curve
Bogner Goldfinger 45 SLSuper Verb, Plexi 50W, Brit 800, Shiver LeadBluetone 4x10 Celestion 10" GreenbacksBrit JM45 4x10
Victory VC35AC20 12AX7 TrebleTubeTown 1x12 Celestion Alnico GoldAC20 1x12

I tested this with two poweramps:
  • Fryette Power Station 100 ("neutral" 100W 6550 tube) using line-in
  • BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition (subminiature tube -> 100W Class D SS) using fx loop return
For reference tone I used my favorite settings on each real amp and tried to match them as best as I could using the amp model settings. There's multiple listed for the Bogner because depending on which channel is used and switch settings it can sound similar to all of those.

The comparisons were done at lowish band volumes and also compared without using the loadbox of the Fryette so I could gauge direct to cab behavior at a bit lower volume. Firmware on Axe-Fx 3 was 19 or 20 at the time I think. To me the amp models started to feel right after I set the closest matching impedance curve. Otherwise noticeably different were the ones that default to 4x12 impedance curves.

This is no way scientific of course but just based on how I perceived the sound and "feel". No longer have either tube amp so I can't give it another go.

YMMV.

Amp output mode set to FRFR?
 
I got better results using speaker impedance curve that closest matched my real cab no matter which poweramp I used.

Reference setups:

Real ampClosest amp model(s)Real cabSpeaker impedance curve
Bogner Goldfinger 45 SLSuper Verb, Plexi 50W, Brit 800, Shiver LeadBluetone 4x10 Celestion 10" GreenbacksBrit JM45 4x10
Victory VC35AC20 12AX7 TrebleTubeTown 1x12 Celestion Alnico GoldAC20 1x12

I tested this with two poweramps:
  • Fryette Power Station 100 ("neutral" 100W 6550 tube) using line-in
  • BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition (subminiature tube -> 100W Class D SS) using fx loop return
For reference tone I used my favorite settings on each real amp and tried to match them as best as I could using the amp model settings. There's multiple listed for the Bogner because depending on which channel is used and switch settings it can sound similar to all of those.

The comparisons were done at lowish band volumes and also compared without using the loadbox of the Fryette so I could gauge direct to cab behavior at a bit lower volume. Firmware on Axe-Fx 3 was 19 or 20 at the time I think. To me the amp models started to feel right after I set the closest matching impedance curve. Otherwise noticeably different were the ones that default to 4x12 impedance curves.

This is no way scientific of course but just based on how I perceived the sound and "feel". No longer have either tube amp so I can't give it another go.

YMMV.
Are you saying to match the impedance curve in the amp block to the actual cab you’re using? So if I use a Mesa 4x12 with the Powerstation, then select the same impedance curve?
 
I havent downloaded the beta yet, but I can see why lol. So I have my Cab block to routed OUT1 to FOH and routed to OUT3 for my IEM's, and no Cab block routed to OUT2 to my Matrix SS amp and Marshall cabs. I guess when the Beta has been finalized I will need to look thru this but I have gigs coming up and dont wanna be chasing my tail last minute. Thanks Yek!
I have the same approach, except a different SS amp. This works great live, eh? I always get muso's in the audience coming up and saying how great everything sounds.
 
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