Wish Sysex instructions can be stored with in the Scene MIDI Send Block

Skogtroll

Skogtroll

Member
Hallo!

I would like to make a suggestion for improvement to the Scene MIDI Send Block.

Besides sending MIDI codes, there should also be the possibility to send Sysex messages.

This could also control peripheral devices that wait for a Sysex handshake before executing the actual MIDI command.

Many thanks!
 
Sysex is hard to implement. Dont get me wrong,i am one of those who could have actual use of that kind of functionality. But since sysex can be so many different things it would be really time consuming implementing it. And as I understand from the “reaserch “ I’ve done. I can say sysex are either the best friend or the worst you ever had!

In fractal world we use sysex only when installing new firmware (at least I believe so)
And the fractal sends a fixed sysex on every downbeat. This sysex are hard to do something useful with, unless you make your own midicontroller/receiver or such.


The fact that every producer have to find their own ways of exploiting the system says a lot. But the technology is old and kind of outdated at this point, so I guess in time we will have Dante networks instead.

I would love to have it, but I get that it’s not the highest of priority. But still +1
 
Honken said:
Sysex is hard to implement. Dont get me wrong,i am one of those who could have actual use of that kind of functionality. But since sysex can be so many different things it would be really time consuming implementing it. And as I understand from the “reaserch “ I’ve done. I can say sysex are either the best friend or the worst you ever had!

In fractal world we use sysex only when installing new firmware (at least I believe so)
And the fractal sends a fixed sysex on every downbeat. This sysex are hard to do something useful with, unless you make your own midicontroller/receiver or such.


The fact that every producer have to find their own ways of exploiting the system says a lot. But the technology is old and kind of outdated at this point, so I guess in time we will have Dante networks instead.

I would love to have it, but I get that it’s not the highest of priority. But still +1
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Processing and calculating sysex might be complex but that has nothing to do with sending sysex from the midi block. That's really no different than sending a CC or PC. The user enters the value, the Fractal sends the value.

Also, there is no "downbeat" on Fractal devices.
 
unix-guy said:
Processing and calculating sysex might be complex but that has nothing to do with sending sysex from the midi block. That's really no different than sending a CC or PC. The user enters the value, the Fractal sends the value.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I mean! You enter the sysex code and the MIDI code into the Scene-MIDI-Send block. If the sysex code is not needed, just leave it out.
 
unix-guy said:
Processing and calculating sysex might be complex but that has nothing to do with sending sysex from the midi block. That's really no different than sending a CC or PC. The user enters the value, the Fractal sends the value.

Also, there is no "downbeat" on Fractal devices.
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Well then i say +1000000 😉👌

But there is a downbeat sent from the unit.
AXE-FX III MIDI FOR THIRD-PARTY DEVICES
Under push data. Ive monitored it my self.

It sendes a fixed sysex at every quarternote.
 
Honken said:
Well then i say +1000000 😉👌

But there is a downbeat sent from the unit.
AXE-FX III MIDI FOR THIRD-PARTY DEVICES
Under push data. Ive monitored it my self.

It sendes a fixed sysex at every quarternote.
Click to expand...
Well, that's interesting:
https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/misc/Axe-Fx III MIDI for 3rd Party Devices.pdf
“PUSH DATA”
The Axe-Fx III sends two types of “push data”: tempo and tuner. When the Send Realtime Sysex parameter in the Global menu is set to On the Axe-Fx III will push tempo and tuner data to the MIDI Out jack. Note: this data ONLY streams over the MIDI Out jack. It does not stream over the MIDI-Over-USB output. The format of these messages are as follows:
MIDI TEMPO
Sent on the tempo down beat.
Message format:
F0 00 01 74 10 10 F7.
Note that no checksum is sent so as to minimize message length.
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I stand corrected!
 
Since I am only superficially familiar with MIDI, I can't quite follow your explanations.

What I do know is that the Scene MIDI-Send-block works completely autonomously without the global MIDI settings. In this respect my suggestion for improvement has nothing to do with the sysex settings of an AXE3, FM9 or FM3!

-----

Background: I would like to control my Line6 JTV'89FB Variax guitar with my FM9. The normal MIDI commands are no problem at all, they are known and can be stored in the Scene MIDI send block without any problems.
But the Variax guitar needs a "Sysex handshake", then it accepts the normal MIDI command.

But there are many more devices that need a "Sysex handshake" before they respond via MIDI.

The Scene MIDI send block is a super great thing! With a Sysex implementation this block would be perfect!!!
 
Rex said:
Now I’m confused. There is nothing else in the Axe-Fx that indicates the device is even aware of meter. Even the metronome is just a single string of quarter notes — no indication of downbeat.
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The topic actually has nothing to do with my topic. It refers to the global MIDI settings of the Fractal devices.

In the Global MIDI settings you can activate a send sysex, but this is used to control peripheral Fractal devices such as the FC Series.

The Scene-MIDI-Send block I discussed is completely independent of the global MIDI settings.
 
Skogtroll said:
The topic actually has nothing to do with my topic. It refers to the global MIDI settings of the Fractal devices.

In the Global MIDI settings you can activate a send sysex, but this is used to control peripheral Fractal devices such as the FC Series.

The Scene-MIDI-Send block I discussed is completely independent of the global MIDI settings.
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Understood. But my question remains.
 
Rex said:
Now I’m confused. There is nothing else in the Axe-Fx that indicates the device is even aware of meter. Even the metronome is just a single string of quarter notes — no indication of downbeat.
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You're right. And unix-guy was right to begin with when he said there is no notion of a downbeat on the Axe-FX. I would say the 3rd party midi doc is not quite correct. It's not sending on a downbeat. Strictly speaking, it's not even sending on a beat. The pulse it is sending is a divided clock.

P.S. +1 to the original wish in this thread.
 
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GlennO said:
You're right. And unix-guy was right to begin with when he said there is no notion of a downbeat on the Axe-FX. I would say the 3rd party midi doc is not quite correct. It's not sending on a downbeat. Strictly speaking, it's not even sending on a beat. What it is sending is a divided clock.

P.S. +1 to the original wish in this thread.
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That makes more sense...

@Admin M@ - maybe the 3rd Party MIDI Spec document needs to be corrected to avoid confusion?
 
Skogtroll said:
With a Sysex implementation this block would be perfect!!!
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As an ex-developer and having played with sysex, I don’t think that sysex is a good fit inside the modeler.

I’m just spitballing here but, IIRC, sysex can be up to 65535 bytes. That would mean the modeler’s individual presets would grow by 8*65535=524280 bytes if each scene is allowed to have a MIDI block sysex payload. For an FM* or FX3 Mk I unit that would require 524280*512=268431360 additional bytes of FLASH and RAM in a system that can’t be expanded. Double that for the FX3 Mk II units.
 
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@Greg Ferguson , I certainly don't have the background you have and frankly I don't understand how large amounts of data can come about.

I would like to enter in the Scene-MIDI-Send block first for example such a sysex code:

F0 00 01 0C 07 00 2A F7

...um dann folgenden MIDI-Code zu senden:

PC 01 -- 49

That would be my idea and request to the Fractal team to modify the Scene MIDI send block.
 
Skogtroll said:
@Greg Ferguson , I certainly don't have the background you have and frankly I don't understand how large amounts of data can come about.

I would like to enter in the Scene-MIDI-Send block first for example such a sysex code:

F0 00 01 0C 07 00 2A F7

...um dann folgenden MIDI-Code zu senden:

PC 01 -- 49

That would be my idea and request to the Fractal team to modify the Scene MIDI send block.
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That’s fine for your use. How about others who need more? If implemented, how does Fractal determine the maximum string size that someone will need? The simplest solution is to use the maximum size and be done with it.

The firmware development in a system like this has to make assumptions about the sizes of data blocks, i.e. presets, and how many will fit within whatever size memory chips they specify. In software for regular computers it’s not usually an issue to change such things because the hardware allows for easier memory upgrades but hardware modelers are different, there are limitations imposed by the design choices made before they started building them. Even with the introduction of the FX3 Mk II and its additional memory, the number of presets doubled, but not the size of individual presets.

Fractal will have seen your request. Whether it’s practical and fits into their plans will be seen.
 
Rex said:
Now I’m confused. There is nothing else in the Axe-Fx that indicates the device is even aware of meter. Even the metronome is just a single string of quarter notes — no indication of downbeat.
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Would be super spiffy if the units could be set to listen to that tempo sysex, for the sake of tempo sunc between multiple Fractal devices. Not a worry here any more, but some folks undoubtedly could benefit from it....
 
unix-guy said:
That makes more sense...

@Admin M@ - maybe the 3rd Party MIDI Spec document needs to be corrected to avoid confusion?
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The interval in which the sysex is sent is dependent on the tempo of the unit. Hence the quarternote. The axe does not understand meassures or such. But it sends a pulse. I’ve been testing this to try converting the pulse to a clock and then have the axe act as clock master. (Insane route of workaround)

I can say that I am out of my league trying to do so. As well as completely derailing from the topic in this thread
 
I just discovered that the AXE-FX3 doesn't transmit midi clock data. I was trying to send tempo info out to VG-99 & GR-55 w/ no luck.
Finally I read in the manual that it only receives midi tempo data.
Hopefully they can address this in a future firmware update.
 
Planta Fantasma said:
I just discovered that the AXE-FX3 doesn't transmit midi clock data. I was trying to send tempo info out to VG-99 & GR-55 w/ no luck.
Finally I read in the manual that it only receives midi tempo data.
Hopefully they can address this in a future firmware update.
Click to expand...
There are wishes for that for a long time... Not really related to this thread, though...
 
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