Sustaining note with distortion at the end

6StringStandard

6StringStandard

Member
I'm trying to recreate a simple solo from the song Arriving Somewhere But Not Here by Porcupine Tree. The solo starts at about the 4 minute mark into the song.
See the Youtube video below:


The question is, how do I get the long sustaining notes to distort like that using the FM3? They start off relatively "clean" then move into almost a pinch harmonic/amp feedback kind of thing. Do I add a modifier to a gain setting somewhere with a WAH peddle? or is it a rig setup along with a technique thing?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
ruso said:
I remember hearing that he used an EBow.
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6StringStandard said:
I'll try an EBow and see how that works.
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While an EBow can go into octaves like that, I seriously doubt that's what is generating the sustain and octave jumps. There's distinct picking occurring during the solo, which is really difficult, maybe even impossible, to do while holding an EBow. It forces its own technique on the player from my experience.

The Sustainiac FAQ says…
(26) Q. Are the Sustainiac sustainers anything like an Ebow?
A. The Sustainiac Stealth sustainer and the Ebow are similar, but with significant differences: Both are magnetic sustainers. They both have the following elements:

(1) Pickup
(2) Amplifier/processor circuit
(3) Magnetic string driver

With the Ebow, all three elements are contained in a small, handheld enclosure. It is then held over individual strings, like a bow. The string is forced to vibrate at its natural resonant frequency. On the upside, the Ebow is completely portable, and doesn't have to be installed. No pickup selection limitations are imposed when the sustainer is on, as with a magnetic sustainer. On the downside, it is more difficult to hold a pick and play "normally" while holding the Ebow. Some would say "impossible".
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The final two sentences are important.

It could be a Sustainiac, but with as simple as the effect is in the solo, it could be a decent amount of gain and enough volume and being positioned close enough to the speaker to allow acoustic coupling to do its thing. The Sustainiac might give a bit more control over when the octave begins than relying on acoustic coupling, which can be more of a random thing.

Try setting up some reasonable gain, a reasonable amount of volume, it doesn't have to be stage volume, just enough to shake the strings, your lightest guitar with sensitive pickups, and experiment with natural acoustic-coupling to start. You might be able to get what you want using that to start.
 
ruso said:
Found this that might help:
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Right, it can do it. The eBow has a characteristic sound in its sustain because the magnet pulls the string and can induce different combinations of the fundamental tone and its harmonics. Moving the eBow forward toward the 12th fret will help negate that, but it's still got its own sound. Like I said above, I've had one since they first came out.

But it can't do pick attack between notes because it has to rebuild the string's vibrations so it fades in like a violin bow would, nor can it do two notes at once like at 4:22 in the solo.

Phil Keaggy is probably the best proponent for the eBow, and years ago made a video showing how he uses it. Relistening to Keaggy's video and comparing it to Porcupine Tree's song shows a lot of differences, and that and my experience with the eBow makes me continue to believe it's the Sustainiac.

And then there's…
There is a long feature on the Raven in PROG magazine. Somewhere in there, Wilson himself claims this outro guitar solo to be "one of the greatest solos ever recorded". The LaRose guitar company sent a new axe on the day of the Drive Home session and Govan tried his hands on it. Not bad for a first take...! The instrument had a sustainiac pickup, an EBow type device for infinite sustain mounted on the body. Govan had never played a Sustainiac before. The top E string tended to pop out of the bridge whenever he hit it too hard so it was rather unstable. it actually happened in that first take of the outro and they recorded some more takes but eventually kept the first take. Nice.
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I don't think it could be an Ebow on the album. There's a lot of obvious picking and licks that use 2 adjacent strings. I'm pretty sure it's just an amp/drive/volume thing. The notes usually have to decay a bit before this octave feedback type sound starts. The note around 4:10-12 gets pretty quiet for example.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
Right, it can do it. The eBow has a characteristic sound in its sustain because the magnet pulls the string and can induce different combinations of the fundamental tone and its harmonics. Moving the eBow forward toward the 12th fret will help negate that, but it's still got its own sound. Like I said above, I've had one since they first came out.

But it can't do pick attack between notes because it has to rebuild the string's vibrations so it fades in like a violin bow would, nor can it do two notes at once like at 4:22 in the solo.

Phil Keaggy is probably the best proponent for the eBow, and years ago made a video showing how he uses it. Relistening to Keaggy's video and comparing it to Porcupine Tree's song shows a lot of differences, and that and my experience with the eBow makes me continue to believe it's the Sustainiac.

And then there's…
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The song in question is from Porcupine Tree with Steven Wilson on guitar...

The Raven... Album is Steven Wilson solo with GG on guitar ;)
 
unix-guy said:
The song in question is from Porcupine Tree with Steven Wilson on guitar...

The Raven... Album is Steven Wilson solo with GG on guitar ;)
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My point is that a Sustainiac equipped guitar was available, whether it was used is different. Wilson's playing on the live version of "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here" shows he could have been using regular old feedback too. It's not an eBow.

And his outro solo in this version shows him trying to coax out the feedback…

 
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Bakerman said:
I don't think it could be an Ebow on the album. There's a lot of obvious picking and licks that use 2 adjacent strings. I'm pretty sure it's just an amp/drive/volume thing. The notes usually have to decay a bit before this octave feedback type sound starts. The note around 4:10-12 gets pretty quiet for example.
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Agreed.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
My point is that a Sustainiac equipped guitar was available, whether it was used is different. Wilson's playing on the live version of "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here" shows he could have been using regular old feedback too. It's not an eBow.
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The quote says it arrived the day of the session... The album was released in 2013.

The song in question is from 2005...

I think it's safe to assume that wasn't it ;)
 
That's really tough to recreate.

I found a cool trick to simulate feedback using a synth block set to take the note from your guitar and play it like an octave up into the amp block when you hit a control switch or something. I'd have to go plug in to pull up the preset for more detail, but that might help. Though it wasn't perfect and was definitely a little finnicky ensuring the pitch detector stayed on the note you wanted it to.

As others have said, even if it's not an ebow, that might be a decent way to simulate it (though probably would take a lot of practice to learn)

Otherwise, it's just a lot of volume...
 
AlexGuitar said:
Otherwise, it's just a lot of volume...
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It doesn’t have to be insane volume or a huge rig though. My tube amps are 20 or 30 watts into a 1x12 speaker and they might be a bit over 100 dB a few feet away and I can get that sort of sustain and the octave feedback. Moving closer to an amp increases the gain of the feedback loop just as turning up the volume will, but moving closer is probably more easily controlled.

The "Modelers Don't Clean Up with the Volume Knob" Myth says:
This is what happens for controlled feedback. The closed loop gain approaches infinity and the loop becomes unstable and oscillates. That's why controlled feedback is easier to obtain at higher volumes, the feedback coefficient is greater. Another way is to move closer to the speaker. Since sound pressure is inversely proportional to the square of the distance moving 50% closer results in four times the feedback!
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Greg Ferguson said:
It doesn’t have to be insane volume or a huge rig though. My tube amps are 20 or 30 watts into a 1x12 speaker and they might be a bit over 100 dB a few feet away and I can get that sort of sustain and the octave feedback. Moving closer to an amp increases the gain of the feedback loop just as turning up the volume will, but moving closer is probably more easily controlled.

The "Modelers Don't Clean Up with the Volume Knob" Myth says:
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True. In the right room, with the ability to get close to the speaker, you don't have to be ridiculously ridiculously loud... but you aren't going to get that sound at bedroom volumes :tearsofjoy:
 
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