Studio Monitor Frustration!

Guitarfreak3D

Guitarfreak3D

Member
Hi all,

Long term AxeFx2 user and player, but rarely post...

I've been using my unit with my Yamaha HS50m monitors since receiving it, but things have never quite clicked (not for lack of trying!).

In short, the axe sounds great through my Matrix power amp and Orange 2x12 (cab sims off), and equally great through my beyerdynamic headphones (with cab sims).

I've gone through thousands of cab IRs, tried ever variation of settings between monitors and the axe, and even moved my room several times over to see if that was the issue.

I've come to the conclusion it's my monitors that are the issue and sucking the fun out recording/mixing...and maybe it's time for a change!

Interested to hear what people are using, what has/hasn't worked, and possibly some suggestions please.

I had KRK VXT8's previously, but never got to try the axe with them. However, I'm not looking to go crazy on price...so no boutique/cost more than my car recommendations please :)

PS - I realise tone is subjective.

Edit: if anyone is using Yamaha HS50Ms successfully with the axe, then I'm keen to hear how!

Thanks!
 
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Ditto on the Equators. I tried everything in the $400 to $800 price range (thank you Guitar Center and Sam Ash) and found those the most pleasing. Still nowhere the same sound as my CLR just for GTR, but on whole mixes they sound damn good.
 
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I never got along with anything smaller than what I have now - Mackie HR624 mkII's. They are 6.7" low. I find them to be great for the axefx and the ax8. But like Gregmang said above - " ".
The mackies are not my favorites, just what I have. But I like minimum 6.5" driver for the fractal stuff. If I was just mixing some stuff then a smaller size would be OK with me. Just my 2 cents. I also am a firm believer in you get what you pay for. my Mackies are not super expensive, but they are $500 each. once again, MO....Good Luck and I am sure you will get a ton of suggestions.
 
For the price I love my JBL 308, I used to use a pair of Tannoy 802 but they sounded really scooped to me, the JBL have way more midrange and plenty of low end.
 
Man, I don't know where to start with this...but I.will say this. Monitor correction in my opinion is more important than room correction. If your monitors are not corrected for flat response, what you hear will never be what you truly hear.

My suggestion: though quite a few may tell you different, I swear by always having a sub so you can hear the low end monitors claim they will give you but never do. You don't need to use much sub...but having a little will make a world of difference. A sub 8 would be perfect. Even for small rooms.

Next, try getting a Rane stereo eq or two mono's and run it between your monitors and have a monitor calibration done by a pro. They run an analyzer on your monitors and add in the frequencies you're missing with the eq and take away the ones you have too much of. Have a pro sound guy come and do it for about $100 give or take. Once the eq is adjusted, you never touch it again unless you move your gear...then you'd need to redo the correction again.

Every real studio in existence has this done so that their monitors are representing properly. So for the price of the sub, eq, and the dude to come and do it, that's you're cheapest and most accurate way without buying new monitors.

I use a program that does this on my end called ARC from Ik Multimedia. It analyzes my monitors and draws a flat eq curve for my monitors and you can use it for multiple monitors as well.

For example, my Yamaha NS 10's have always been horrible. Industry standard is....if you make stuff sound good on them, it will sound good everywhere. Not the case for me. They just were in such bad shape without being corrected.

The same with my other monitors...Adam A 7, Tannoy, Event, Genelec, Tascam....as good or bad as they are, they ALL needed monitor calibration/correction in order to allow me to make the right calls.

If your monitors have too much bass by default, you remove bass in your guitar tone or in your mixes. If they have too much high end, you will remove high end, right?

Now what if the high end you hear doesn't really exist and is just an artifact of the monitors natural curve interacting with your room? That would mean what you are hearing isn't really accurate. So if you calibrate/correct the monitors, you have a MUCH better chance at accuracy as well as making the right calls.

Definitely look into this stuff before you buy new monitors. No matter which ones you get....even if you spent 12k, sometimes great sounding monitors are actually coloring the sound too much. They too need to be corrected for flat. If you have any questions or need help, please let me know. :)
 
If you have room and budget, go for 8s, but go to a store first with your phone and some of your playing on an Mp3, bring adapters to run into their system and hear the differences. Note - placement has an effect so try to position yourself reltaively the same for each pair.
 
At the risk of being somewhat controversial, instead of monitors, maybe think about a pair of Focal Monitoring headphones. They're pretty pricey, but they are really outstanding and very flat. This takes the room out of your mixes and if you subscribe to the left, right and center panning ideal, then the typical arguments around stereo imaging kinda go out the window.

Having said all that, I suspect your monitors are fine but you just need to work on learning more about effective mixing techniques. It's a huge undertaking and can demand a lot of time to make a product that's pretty good.

Good luck
 
AX8 user here, but just plugged into those exact Yamaha's while writing at a friends place last week.
Got them to sound decent with a little bit of effort.
He uses these speakers for a Motif keyboard and it sounds really right for that application.

My home set up is AX8 -> SPDIF Interface -> JBL 305 monitors.
Love these monitors!! Lots of punch for a 5" speaker. Rear ported and very directional, but the sweet spot is huge if you set them up right.
I set my patches at 45% on AX8 output. 90dB max.

On the Yamahas, I went in stereo 1/4" through a small 4 channel mixer. 2 Channels panned L-R and started at unity.
The volume was almost there (about 80dB). Tone was just bland even on patches with extra compression and eq.
Mixer EQ did not help. Playing single coils, it was pretty unforgiving.

What ended up working best was bringing Axe output down and pushing mixer channel back up to achieve 80dB.
Played on this set up for almost 3 hours and it handled every sound I threw at it.
Modulation tones (Mutron!) and stereo effects had really good fidelity on these speaker.

Can't say enough good things about the JBLs though!!
 
The first problem you have is there's a 99% chance that your room is shit. You need to fix that first and foremost.

Second, if you can't do that, doing monitor/room correction (as @Danny Danzi suggested) is a reasonable bandaid.

Finally, if that's not possible because your room is so bad that option #2 isn't feasible, you can opt for just using headphones (as @Bix suggested). With headphones you can also use software to do EQ correction on those too.
 
I am a huge advocate for tuning your room to being a more acoustic space.
But unless you are really mixing, changing a room is not going to change your music.

If your mixing, you need to fit 4+ instruments into a frequency spectrum of 50Hz->10,000Hz (guitar lives in 160-1600Hz)
Building a guitar tone, the best I can hope for is one good tone from each mono speaker

Make each tone sound the best it can be. The way you, the musician, enjoy it. Adjust based on the mix you are inserting it into. Phrasing!

I got an interface to have the option of using headphones. But I almost never do, it just not the same thing...
The interaction of the room, feedback, the guitar and pickups.

A good pair of Yamaha speakers should be able to give you a working representation of your tone.
 
benvigil is probably right assuming you haven't already put some thought into the placement of your monitors and have some basic acoustic treatment. There are a lot of great articles on this website http://www.gikacoustics.com/articles/ about room setup, monitor placement, etc.

Try this, Download an app called Signal Gen (if you have an iphone) or just play some test tones from this guy's youtube channel . Play that 80hz tone and walk around the room slowly and listen for the peaks and nulls (volume differences) in the bass. It could be that your listening position isn't ideal and you're getting hyped or starved of certain bass and mid frequencies which definitely takes away from the experience. Poor monitor position and room acoustics can make expensive monitors sound like shit. Good room treatment and proper monitor placement can make decent monitors sound pretty good. Hope that helps.

Best of luck, sorry it can be frustrating. I'm going through this right now with my music room (i recently moved). After finding a sweet spot in the room for the monitors and making some DIY bass traps and broadband absorption panels, my room sounds 100x better and the Axe through my Yamaha HS8's sounds a lot better and is more enjoyable to play than it was when I gave room acoustics no thought.
 
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guitarfreak3d said:
Edit: if anyone is using Yamaha HS50Ms successfully with the axe, then I'm keen to hear how!
Click to expand...
I've been rocking those exact monitors for years, now. I used to own the HS8S subwoofer, but recently sold it because even with the level at 9 o'clock it was too much. Jamming out on it, I have no problem. When recording and mixing, I do use a room correction software from Sonarworks. Everyone's room is different, so YMMV.
 
I play, record and set my tones with a pair of Yamaha HS7. I find they do a great work, very transparent and equilibrate. Previously I used a pair of monitor with a sub, but it's not the right situation to set your tones, because, as Cliff himself said, if you plug your guitar in a real amp probably it will not have a sub woofer kicking bass freq.
 
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