Steve Lukather Soldano X88R preset

I thought I had a breakdown on his Bradshaw pedalboards ( they've changed a couple of times too ), that he's been using lately w/ his Bogners .... But I can't seem to find that right now. If I do, I'll post it up later.
 
Great work and thanks for the preset. I should dust off my trusty 1990 original Valley Arts Lukather custom pro for a test run then ;)

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His effects where pretty much the same, minus reverb, minus syncing the delays to the songs tempo, and also only using chorus/pitch on clean tones (and less of it). So yeah, basically just PCM70s for ambience most of the time ;) I can work out a modern (2000s) CAE 3+SE version of this, if there is enough interest for it. It's not to hard compared to this Soldano preset, especially since I've done a lot of the ground work already regarding effects etc. He did use some stuff like a vibe, tremolo, leslie etc with the last CAE 3+SE rig, but those are pretty straight forward.

El Grupo is the CAE 3+SE. Santamental is a Marshall, modded to sound like CH3 of a 3+SE (many of the guest artist on the album used the same head actually). I think the last major thing he did with the Rivera was the Carlton live record. I've owned a CAE 3+ with a VHT Classic power amp, a CAE 3+SE (with mods) with a VHT 2/90/2, and also a Rivera Bonehead. The Rivera sounds nothing like the CAE preamps, it definitely got it's own thing going on.

The Rivera was based on the CAE I recall Luke saying, but you're right it is different with its own vibe. A lot of that has to do with the fact that the output transformer reacts with the preamp and tone stack directly, and that doesn't happen with a separate preamp and power amp. I remember Cliff explaining this in more detail in a thread somewhere.
 
Having played around with the Solo 88 on the Axe for a while - one of my favorite models especially the Rhythm channel, I've not been able to nail that kind of loose, greasy quality to Wizard manages to achieve in the first video I posted above (Soldano Rig Demo starting around 1:45). It can't quite get it using this preset either.

It's possible that Luke didn't get it either! :D

But, and apologies for going a little of course, if anyone can point point the magic ingredient, I'd be very interested.
 
Having played around with the Solo 88 on the Axe for a while - one of my favorite models especially the Rhythm channel, I've not been able to nail that kind of loose, greasy quality to Wizard manages to achieve in the first video I posted above (Soldano Rig Demo starting around 1:45). It can't quite get it using this preset either.

It's possible that Luke didn't get it either! :D

But, and apologies for going a little of course, if anyone can point point the magic ingredient, I'd be very interested.
the power amp that's being used with a preamp plays quite a huge role in the final sound as well. that video with the rebuilt rack uses a solid state power amp which will sound very different to when using a tube power amp. not sure which power amp Cliff paired with the X88 model, but most likely not a solid state one.
 
Here’s a copy of tonygtr’s post on the Circular & Panned settings from the PCM70 ….

I AM Tonygtr :D That was my previous screen name for a couple of years. I'm not even named Tony, it was kind of a joke. I change screen names whenever I change my email adress. As you can see, that post is pretty old, and I have collected many more recordings, and spent so much more time analysing things in audio programs etc. There is probably other old posts out there from me using other screen names, with what I now know is wrong information, so just disregard anything that's more than a couple of years old and not from this screen name. I'd appreciate it if you could edit out those old quotes, it can make this thread quite confusing to have incorrect information contradicting the accurate one in the OP.

He always used reverb in his rack rigs until he starting using the Riveras. From around 87-88 it was always the same one too, the Roland SRV2000, and always near the top of the rack.

Regarding his preamps, I've spoken more than once to John Suhr and Bob Bradshaw regarding both the X88R and the CAE 3+. "Kingdom of Desire" is released first in September 1992, and is the CAE 3+. The last thing Luke ever did with the X88R prototype is the 1990 "Planet Earth" tour, which ends in December of that year. After that, it's the 3+. There are only two songs on Van Halen's "FUCK" that's a 3+, and that's "The Dream is Over" and "Spank". It's actually not even a proper 3+, but the prototype of what would later become the 3+. The album "Lukather" is a mix of everything. There's the X88R, Soldano SLO100, the Rivera modded Marshalls etc. The prototype of the X88R was ready in early 1988, but it wasn't fully implemented in the rig right away.

The biggest breakthrough regarding the delays came when I realized that he synced the delays to tempos, although kind of badly at times. I don't think he tap tempod the PCM70s, I think Bob Bradshaw programmed presets on the units with different delays times, and then he switched the presets with a small midi controller backstage. At least that's what he says on the CAE website. I'm guessing the PCM70s might not have had presets programmed for exactly every song, or the tempos swayed a lot live. Anyway, that made me realize that I had to disregard the times of the delays, as a way to tell which one has was used for what thing. I had also been told by other people that the "Circular delays" was his main delay, but I know now from all my research that "Pan delays" was always used more. He did use "Circular delays" more by itself with the CAE 3+ and 3+SE rigs though, but "Pan delays" was still the favourite. So now you know why I incorrectly thought "Circular delays" was the one he used most.

I never used the regular delay block to simulate the PCM70 presets, and there has always been two multidelay blocks, even the old Ultra had two.

The Tri Stereo Chorus information is not from me. I googled and it's from other users over at HRI, none of them me.

The info on Lukather's use of chorus and detune is mostly correct, The timeline might be a little fuzzy regarding the TC2290 and TC1210, but I think it's pretty accurate besides that. I can't remember where I got the information on Landau's detune settings, probably from some Landau-buff over at HRI, so I can't say with 100% certainty that those are correct.

I have never seen a break down of his pedalboard with the Bogners, except a quick listing of the pedals being used in the first version of the board that Racksystems built him, but that's 3.5 years old by now. Before that, Bob built the pedalboards for use with the Bogners.
 
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The Rivera was based on the CAE I recall Luke saying, but you're right it is different with its own vibe. A lot of that has to do with the fact that the output transformer reacts with the preamp and tone stack directly, and that doesn't happen with a separate preamp and power amp. I remember Cliff explaining this in more detail in a thread somewhere.

"Marketing" at it's finest to say that the Bonehead was based on the 3+SE ;) There was nothing similar between them, circuit-wise nor tone-wise. It was one of Lukather's worst tones, and I didn't like mine. I don't know too many who liked it actually, and I still don't know why I even bought it. I sold it to some guy in France who loved them so much, he bought mine as a second one to act as a backup to his first :D

Having played around with the Solo 88 on the Axe for a while - one of my favorite models especially the Rhythm channel, I've not been able to nail that kind of loose, greasy quality to Wizard manages to achieve in the first video I posted above (Soldano Rig Demo starting around 1:45). It can't quite get it using this preset either.

It's possible that Luke didn't get it either! :D

But, and apologies for going a little of course, if anyone can point point the magic ingredient, I'd be very interested.

Well, the rhythm channel of the X88R in the Axe has always seemed a bit "muddy" to me. That's why I tweak stuff like the cut under the bass knob, definition etc. The Norwegian guy in the clip uses the bright cap on both CH1 and CH2, my presets don't since Lukather didn't use them. Try activating the bright cap in my preset, and also increase the value of the bright cap to something like 500pf. Other than that, the trick is EMGs, and hitting the strings HARD like Lukather does, it brings out the string definition or glassyness like some people like to call it.

the power amp that's being used with a preamp plays quite a huge role in the final sound as well. that video with the rebuilt rack uses a solid state power amp which will sound very different to when using a tube power amp. not sure which power amp Cliff paired with the X88 model, but most likely not a solid state one.

Lukather used a HH V800 solid state power amp, so my preset doesn't use the power amp sim at all.
 
"Marketing" at it's finest to say that the Bonehead was based on the 3+SE ;) There was nothing similar between them, circuit-wise nor tone-wise. It was one of Lukather's worst tones, and I didn't like mine. I don't know too many who liked it actually, and I still don't know why I even bought it. I sold it to some guy in France who loved them so much, he bought mine as a second one to act as a backup to his first :D

Just to be clear it was Luke that said it, not me, so don't shoot the messenger if it is actually hogwash :) ... But you're right, it (Bonehead) wasn't that good, and likely why he didn't stick with it for very long. Luke isn't known as a gear snob anyway, he tends not to sweat over fine detail (kind of the antithesis of this thread).
 
Just to be clear it was Luke that said it, not me, so don't shoot the messenger if it is actually hogwash :) ... But you're right, it (Bonehead) wasn't that good, and likely why he didn't stick with it for very long. Luke isn't known as a gear snob anyway, he tends not to sweat over fine detail (kind of the antithesis of this thread).

Sorry, I know that it was Lukather who said it :) That's why I said "marketing". There was actually a big mess with Paul Rivera and a nasty split between him and Lukather. Together with the Rivera, Lukather developt (or just put his name on) a subwoofer for guitar. If my memory serves me correct, Lukather wanted credit/money for the whole subwoofer deal, Paul didn't want to give him any since it was his idea according to him etc. I can't remember who was right or wrong, but they split and Lukather was pretty vocal about his opinions about both Paul Rivera and the Bonehead after that. Most of it is probably removed from the internet by now anyway. Lukather actually went to ISP (the guys who make the Decimator) and put his name on their subwoofers for guitar after the Rivera mess. He never ever used the ISP products though, he did at least use the Rivera subwoofer when he was with them.
 
I recall a bit about that Rivera bust-up, now you mention it. I had a friend that used a Rivera knucklehead, and it was a decent enough sounding amp, but the tone controls were maxed out, i.e. Not enough headroom, so it was a bit limited tonally. Anyway he switched to the Axe-Fx once he AB'd his rig with mine. He was blown away by the Axe's sound and versatility. Sadly he's no longer with us. :-(
 
I AM Tonygtr :D That was my previous screen name for a couple of years.

WOW ! O.K., welcome back under the new name ... ! At least you got credit for your "joined" date !

Anyway ..., so what you're saying is you've learned some new information since back in 2009 ! That's good to know and I'll update my info accordingly !

I did a cut 'n' paste of almost everything we discussed before and saved it ( along w/ the stuff from Flukather @ HRI ) into a word document. I still refer to it from time to time !

THANKS for keeping us up to date !
 
"The Norwegian guy in the clip uses the bright cap on both CH1 and CH2, my presets don't since Lukather didn't use them. Try activating the bright cap in my preset, and also increase the value of the bright cap to something like 500pf. Other than that, the trick is EMGs, and hitting the strings HARD like Lukather does, it brings out the string definition or glassyness like some people like to call it.

Thank you so much Guitarnerdswe, that Bright cap value makes so much difference. I tend to gravitate to the control being on with most of my presets but never thought to adjust the settings. I've been trying to figure out the secret to the glassy tone for years thinking it must be possible on a modeler of the Axe's caliber having seen Adrian Smith playing through a Johnson J Station and getting an awesome glassy semi-distorted tone years ago. If the actual Soldano hardware uses 500pf bright caps, I wonder why the Axe is set to 10pf? Your presets seem ready-set to 500pf so just needed to turn on the setting.

It's also interesting how little the power amp contributes (it's not like the resulting sound is intentionally sterile - at least to my ears).
 
Thank you so much Guitarnerdswe, that Bright cap value makes so much difference. I tend to gravitate to the control being on with most of my presets but never thought to adjust the settings. I've been trying to figure out the secret to the glassy tone for years thinking it must be possible on a modeler of the Axe's caliber having seen Adrian Smith playing through a Johnson J Station and getting an awesome glassy semi-distorted tone years ago. If the actual Soldano hardware uses 500pf bright caps, I wonder why the Axe is set to 10pf? Your presets seem ready-set to 500pf so just needed to turn on the setting.

It's also interesting how little the power amp contributes (it's not like the resulting sound is intentionally sterile - at least to my ears).
Channel 2 of a real X88R doesn't have a bright cap on the gain knob. It has another static solution, that's why it defaults to 10pf. The 500pf value was added by me while tweaking. So with the bright on and the bright cap set to 500pf, you're getting both the bright circuit that's in the actual preamp, plus a 500pf bright cap on the gain potentiometer that's not on the real deal.
 
WOW ! O.K., welcome back under the new name ... ! At least you got credit for your "joined" date !

Anyway ..., so what you're saying is you've learned some new information since back in 2009 ! That's good to know and I'll update my info accordingly !

I did a cut 'n' paste of almost everything we discussed before and saved it ( along w/ the stuff from Flukather @ HRI ) into a word document. I still refer to it from time to time !

THANKS for keeping us up to date !

I think my collection of recordings and bootlegs from that era has at least doubled since 2009. That helps, for a start ;-) Also disregarding what others have said about his use of delay, and going through every song on records, bootlegs etc with no preconceptions about what should and should not be helped. It was then I realised that "Pan delays" was the standard delay, and that the times were not static.
 
You probably already know this .., but marsa ( @ HRI ) seems to have a direct private E-mail directly to Luke ....

He asked him a specific question about Candyman a week ( or so ) ago and he got an answer almost immediately.

I know you're on HRI too, so if there are any outstanding details, that might be a way to get your questions answered.

THANKS again !
 
You probably already know this .., but marsa ( @ HRI ) seems to have a direct private E-mail directly to Luke ....

He asked him a specific question about Candyman a week ( or so ) ago and he got an answer almost immediately.

I know you're on HRI too, so if there are any outstanding details, that might be a way to get your questions answered.

THANKS again !

Yeah, I know that :) The problem is, Lukather's not a gearhead, so he doesn't really remember or know all the details about his past gear. I've seen him say one thing about his gear at the time he was using it, and another thing years later. A good example is his gear on the four new songs on "Past to Present". I've also seen him say that the stock times for the "Pan delays" is 300/600ms, when it's 376/768ms. It might seem trivial, but for a guy like me, who's a huge nerd about anything related to Lukather's gear, it matters ;)
 
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Yeah ..., and I think some of that might have been "lifestyle" induced too ....

I know I'm not the only one by a long shot ..., but I'm so thankful that he got his mind right and is now clean & sober .... I have a feeling that he's still got a whole lot of music in his head that I know a lot of his old fans, and even some new ones would really, REALLY enjoy having the chance to hear ... !
 
If the actual Soldano hardware uses 500pf bright caps, I wonder why the Axe is set to 10pf? Your presets seem ready-set to 500pf so just needed to turn on the setting.
Bright Caps are one of the easiest and quickest things to mod in a real amp with getting good and functioning results. I know a few people from back in the day who changed Bright Caps in their Soldanos. since we're talking about one of the first X88 pres, it's not even clear what value exactly was used...
 
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