Starting over...

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

...anyone else here done this with their guitar playing..?

I've been playing since the late '80s - am now 41. Grew up on a healthy dose of Maiden & Jovi etc then Vai & Satch moved the goalposts as it were. I learned to play ok - a few scales, a bit of shred technique etc pretty much the usual stuff - but because we could never find a singer, I ended up doing that too

I was in a band doing original material at the time - lead guitarist was better than me for sure, but I could hold my own in some of the progressive stuff

Since '96, I've been in a covers band doing mainstream rock & pop classics - so not much call for swept arpeggios etc! The thing is, I'm aware perhaps now more than ever that in the last 16 years, I don't think I've improved as a player at all - as a singer, yes, but I guess if anything, my playing has probably gone backwards

So, I'm not necessarily looking for a new style, just to be 'better' at what I do I suppose... you know, more accurate or technically proficient

I've skipped through a couple tutorial dvds and have already seen loads of stuff I've never gotten into and that's great because I'm in a very receptive frame of mind with all that, BUT, my main concern is that after all this time, I now actually have so many habits that I'll never be able to 'un-learn' them well enough to actually improve technically

I don't expect any magic wand and am happy to, as the title suggests, 'start over' and put in the work, but is it actually possible to progress when the piece of paper is not blank to begin with..?

 

[steadystate]

...anyone else here done this with their guitar playing..?

Since '96, I've been in a covers band doing mainstream rock & pop classics - so not much call for swept arpeggios etc! The thing is, I'm aware perhaps now more than ever that in the last 16 years, I don't think I've improved as a player at all - as a singer, yes, but I guess if anything, my has playing probably gone backwards

Change the year to 2000 and you have my situation in a nutshell. I was way better then than I am now. I simply have no time to practice the stuff I like.

 

[Rich G.]

Interesting topic... I often listen back to recordings of myself and think "ugh. I sound like that?!". My playing to me sounds unclean and "plinky" instead of fluid. I tend to sound more like Alex Lifeson than Satriani or Vai. Not that Alex is bad, just not what I'm trying to accomplish. I wish I could go back and tweak how "my" style came to be, but sometimes these habits are just part of who we are... like our speaking voice.

There are a few things that can be done to change how we think about playing... When I'm in a rut I'll change tunings. DADGAD can really open things up. Muscle memory tends to dictate playing flow. Our fingers want to go to the same old familiar places. With a different tuning, a different sound comes out for a given chord shape. This provides a lot more "that was cool!" moments because an unexpected sound happens.

 

[EightmanVT]

Coming off of a 5 year hiatus due to work and birth of a child - so yes...kind of starting over myself....and trying to pay attention to things that I should have learned when I was younger. 41 here too

 

[Sidivan]

I'm 30 and I'm going through the same thing. I've been playing since around 1998 and every time I feel like my chops are sliding backwards, I go back to fundamentals. I'm not a shred guy, nor have I ever been, so I don't really consider that a measure of technique. What I do consider sliding backwards is when I start to get slow on key changes, inversions, etc... usually due to focusing on things like the business and logistics side of the band and/or practicing/polishing the songs we have completed and will be performing. I have a couple great exercises that I got from various instructors over the years to help me get back up to par.

Scales going backwards around the circle of 5ths, but keep the same position. Start in C in first position (first finger on fret 1), play up and back down. Without changing positions, play in F and so forth and so on (C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Shift a fret to B, E, A, D, G). I do that in every position in the neck and it helps to break me out of some of the scale patterns/keys that I use too much.

I also do arpeggios of Maj7, Min7, Dominate 7, and Dim7 as well, though I switch positions for those (with roots on the E string, then the A string, then the G string). I try to do this with different fingers beginning on the root too.

Inversions are practiced using the CAGED system. I like to say, "GMaj" and then play it in 3rd position (Root), 8th position (1st inversion), 12th position (2nd inversion), 15th (root), then back down.

While doing all of this, I don't focus on speed. Rather, I focus on playing it correctly and smoothly. The way I figure is that speed is a side effect of playing things perfectly. If I can play it perfectly slow, it's simply a matter of turning up the metronome to play it faster. I guess at the end of the day, I'd rather be the guy that can sit in with any band in any style than the guy that can sweep arpeggios at 200bpm. These exercises help break me out of ruts by making sure I'm hearing all the different possible keys in every position. Sometimes I hit a chord or run a scale and go "ooooh, I really like that", which ends up being some key I never would've used.

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

Our fingers want to go to the same old familiar places

THAT is definitely the case

Even to the point where if I reach for the guitar, I'm pretty much guaranteed to automatically play the same thing!

One flaw I've definitely identified is picking a scale when the sequence changes from three notes per string, through two, then back to three again. Yeah, I can hammer on etc and run through it, but precisely picking each note is another matter. Slowly, not a problem, but pick up the pace (not even a million notes a minute stuff) and something gets blocked and tangled in there. I think that's a definite flaw which has become ingrained

I guess this is all stemming from zero practice. I've learnt and can play lots of solos in the songs we regularly perform, but outside of that, I haven't studied any theory or technique for the best part of two decades!

Old dog new tricks anyone..?

 

[Ben Randolph]

Perhaps explore a style that has always interested you, yet maybe you haven't explored for one reason or another. You could pick a player who really moves you, yet maybe you're not exactly sure why. Maybe find a teacher to explore these things with.

Is there a jazz program at a college near you? I think knowing jazz can help any player no matter what your style is.

You say you're weak on theory. I'd recommend buying this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guitar-Fret...9011/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329151783&sr=8-1

Go through a chapter every other day. It focuses on the essentials of fretboard theory that will give you a good foundation for more advanced things. It doesn't cover modes very well, but there are other resources for that. CAGED, as has been stated, is a great thing to learn.

I find the giant 10,000 chord or scale bibles to be pretty useless. Learn pentatonics in all 5 positions, the modes (ionion, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aolean, locrain) and how they relate on the fretboard. Then, you can see the fretboard more as one big scale that you can play with. Oh, and the harmonized major scale is a must. Nashville notation, etc.

Vinnie Moore has a great lesson on modes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-DbaaI4wc

It was made in 1989, so ignore the poofy hair. He explains modes on the fretboard really well.

Interesting, you're nearly the same age as me (I'm 40, will turn 41 in April). I started guitar at 17 during the era of pointy guitars and played in various metal bands. I also studied classical guitar for 2-3 years. I was all about diminished, harmonic minor, speed, etc. I reached a point where I feel I boxed myself in. I focused purely on the technical aspect of playing, but I was really weak on theory. I could play things that were flashy, but I felt I resorted more to parlor tricks, such as tapping, to sound impressive. It came at the cost of musicality.

I burned out around my mid-20's. I put the guitar down and decided to take a break from it. That break lasted 12-13 years. At 38 I restarted from scratch. I came back into it with a totally different focus. I wanted to learn what session players know. So, I got a teacher who taught me harmonic theory, modes, CAGED, chord-tone soloing, etc. It's really changed the way I see guitar. We're getting deeper into theory with jazz right now. I absolutely love it.

I also enrolled in a local college guitar ensemble. Learning to play in ensemble format really helps your hear and timing.

I think going into it with realistic expectations helps. Will I become a groundbreaking virtuoso? Probably not. I'm not a teenager anymore and I don't have 12-15 hours a day to practice. My goal is to become a competent jazz player. I think that goal is totally attainable in time. I'm not as young as I used to be, but on average I still have a few decades left in life. That's more than enough time to reach my goals if I'm dedicated. Plus, with a good software development job now I can buy gear like my Axe-FX and Atomic cabs whereas before I scraped buy on pawn shop gear bought from my dishwashing job.

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

Change the year to 2000 and you have my situation in a nutshell. I was way better then than I am now. I simply have no time to practice the stuff I like.

I'm hoping to make time to practice stuff I should be!

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

I'm not a shred guy, nor have I ever been, so I don't really consider that a measure of technique.

I absolutely agree... it's the accuracy as much as anything which I realise I'm missing and of course being accurately hitting what you want, when you want extends into many things, not just a full on shred solo

usually due to focusing on things like the business and logistics side of the band and/or practicing/polishing the songs we have completed and will be performing

Yep, I know that only too well. We've often recognised that the actual music is the last priority... which is very odd isn't it..?

I have a couple great exercises that I got from various instructors over the years to help me get back up to par.

Those do indeed sound great... but as I recently discovered, whilst I can identify majors & minors in all keys etc etc and can 'work out' most musical issues, I've never been fluent in theory - indeed, to the point of not actually knowing the various positions of which you speak! One of the dvds I looked at focuses on this and I'll certainly be getting stuck into that and maybe then, your excellent recommendation might make a lot more sense

While doing all of this, I don't focus on speed. Rather, I focus on playing it correctly and smoothly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suddenly hankering to put Chris Impellitteri to shame or anything! I just want to be better at what I do rather than frustrated at the inconsistencies

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

Perhaps explore a style that has always interested you, yet maybe you haven't explored for one reason or another. You could pick a player who really moves you, yet maybe you're not exactly sure why. Maybe find a teacher to explore these things with.

Is there a jazz program at a college near you? I think knowing jazz can help any player no matter what your style is.

To be honest Ben, I have very wide musical tastes, but oddly enough have never felt compelled to play jazz! I can obviously appreciate the playing (and have indeed commented on your stuff), but it's not something I've ever wanted to do... not where the heart is I suppose

You say you're weak on theory. I'd recommend buying this book: Guitar Fretboard Workbook: Amazon.co.uk: Barrett Tagliarino: Books

Go through a chapter every other day. It focuses on the essentials of fretboard theory that will give you a good foundation for more advanced things. It doesn't cover modes very well, but there are other resources for that. CAGED, as has been stated, is a great thing to learn.

Yep, that is certainly a hole in my foundation which needs filling

I think going into it with realistic expectations helps. Will I become a groundbreaking virtuoso? Probably not. I'm not a teenager anymore and I don't have 12-15 hours a day to practice. My goal is to become a competent jazz player.

Agreed. It's definitely about being realistic too. As mentioned, I'm not about to start entering some Axe-God-Wannabe mid-life crisis

(as much fun as that would be!) it's just about wanting to be better at what I do

 

[GuitarDojo]

I'm 41 fixing to turn 42 and have been teaching guitar for 23 years - (as a fulltime job during the 90's for about 4 years.)

It's the same ol diagnosis for me as it is for students my age and older wanting to be better than they were in the past. Time after time its...... TIME

Find a guitar teacher who will challenge you and NOT METER out the information. (Music instructors are NOTORIOUS for this as to feed you mini bites to keep you coming back ) One with a similar style.

If you are not happy with your playing then its seriously TIME to go out to the "woodshed". It sounds like rigorous chore but you can do it and still have fun.

One of my current students is retirement age and plays way better now than when he first came in 3 years ago. (lead guitar solos) Of course...he got more time to dedicate to it now since he is semi-retired working 2 days a week consulting and playing guitar and riding motorcycles the rest. Oh the life.

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

I'm 41 fixing to turn 42 and have been teaching guitar for 23 years - (as a fulltime job during the 90's for about 4 years.)

Thanks for chiming in - kinda hoped you would

It's the same ol diagnosis for me as it is for students my age and older wanting to be better than they were in the past. Time after time its...... TIME

Indeed. I know there is no shortcut

Find a guitar teacher who will challenge you and NOT METER out the information.

As identified by myself and confirmed in this thread thus far, I have plenty of stuff to look at and challenge myself with now! I guess my over-arching question is one of 'old dogs new tricks'... can what has become so habitual be undone..?

If you are not happy with your playing then its seriously TIME to go out to the "woodshed". It sounds like rigorous chore but you can do it and still have fun.

I get ya

 

[GuitarDojo]

As identified by myself and confirmed in this thread thus far, I have plenty of stuff to look at and challenge myself with now! I guess my over-arching question is one of 'old dogs new tricks'... can what has become so habitual be undone?

Yes. Thats why I think you need to go see a Guitar instructor first. Skip the books,video and tabs within your reach. Think of it as your paying someone to kick your @ss! :twisted

 

[henryrobinett]

Many years ago I pretended I had a conversation with a little man from Mars. This little green furry thing said he wanted to learn how to play the guitar, had to be the BEST, and he had to do it right. No stone left unturned. Time or impatience weren't factors because his kind lived very long lives and had the patience of stone.

So I designed a program for my imaginary friend containing all the things I knew he would need to do and need to practice and have underneath his belt and fingertips. All the scales, arpeggios in every conceivable fashion, timing exercises, chords, chord melodies, improv exercises, fretboard exercises, transcriptions and ear training. It would take anyone years to get through. THEN I put myself on this program. I'm still working the program, a little.

One thing to my advantage, or not, is I have never tried to sound like anyone else. That's a burden that's hard to overcome. My goal has always been to find my own voice, which hasn't been hard. Just play! But when you decide you want to sound like "X", be that Vai, Satch, Beck, Jimi, whoever - then you're constantly comparing yourself, rather than just playing YOURSELF at the highest ability YOU can.

Obviously there are fundamentals. Those are always on the table, until you take them off either because you've accomplished them or you decided to forego them, for whatever reason.

A famous musician once told me, "Musicians practice." Simple but extremely wise words for a musician. That's what we do. Everything else is coating.

 

[3Dhuman]

About a year ago, I completely changed my picking technique. I'll be 41 in six weeks. I used the old tried and true method... become a hermit, stop answering the phone, continually turn down any and all social engagements, practice, practice, practice. I think this is the shortest route... though, clearly not the most practical. I should add... I am single, have no dependents, live alone and tend towards being anti-social (nothing against people... I just don't like them ).

Also... that is the first time in my life that I've used a 'smiley face' emoticon. See?... anything is possible...

 

[MikeyB59]

Practice things you DON'T KNOW slowly and consistently. Attach your ear to your fingers. Sing things and play them. Play them and sing them. I'm very unhappy when I don't get to practice enough.

Get a teacher. It's really hard to keep pushing yourself and hang in there by yourself. I can do it in phases, but it's also good to have phases with a teacher who inspires you and helps you see/hear what's possible in your playing.

 

[jandjrs]

I've found a great source of guitar tutorials at: TrueFire - Guitar Lessons - Learn How to Play Guitar Online. The styles include Blues, Blues Rock, Rock, Country, Fingerstyle....... You can download the tutorials or receive the DVD's. If you are on their emailing list, you will be notified of new discounted releases. Otherwise, there are regular sales in the "Fire Sales" link: Fire Sales: Daily Sales on TrueFire Courses (especially around the major holidays. ie Christmas, Easter....)

I'm not affiliated with the business. I just I highly recommend their tutorials.

 

[funny_polymath]

I'm 52, self-taught, mostly rock and experimental (wayyyy experimental stuff). I recently heard a rock solo I recorded when I was 18 and was like Whoah, that's way better than what I'm doing now. I was perhaps just ignorant enough to be unruly and inventive (think of Dave Davies of the kinks - his great 'you really got me' lead, when he didn't know what the hell he was doing vs. some of his 'fancier' and 'more educated' leads later). Of course, I was also paralyzed from the neck down 20 years ago and couldn't play at all for 8 years after that, so it's unrealistic to think I'll ever be as fast as I was at 18. Still, I have much to learn (and some bad habits, scale crutches to unlearn). I a, starting over with a Blues Method DVD set, and learning some arabic and south-asian scales. And I'm doing some scale work with a metronme reaallllll slow. Sure I can play 'em faster, but I want to play each not impeccably. my $0.02 fr the day...

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

Many years ago I pretended I had a conversation with a little man from Mars...

Nice tale

One thing to my advantage, or not, is I have never tried to sound like anyone else. That's a burden that's hard to overcome. My goal has always been to find my own voice, which hasn't been hard. Just play! But when you decide you want to sound like "X", be that Vai, Satch, Beck, Jimi, whoever - then you're constantly comparing yourself, rather than just playing YOURSELF at the highest ability YOU can.

Yep - I'm cool with that. I didn't intend to suggest that I want to be like anyone - I just want to do the things I do better. You know, sometimes when I try something, it goes really well and other times, it's like I've barely ever played. THAT'S what I'm hoping to address - be able hook everything up so that I can articulate accurately through both hands what I'm thinking in my head and try to overcome the somewhat 'hit & miss' rut to which I have become accustomed

Obviously there are fundamentals. Those are always on the table, until you take them off either because you've accomplished them or you decided to forego them, for whatever reason.

A famous musician once told me, "Musicians practice." Simple but extremely wise words for a musician. That's what we do. Everything else is coating.

I guess therein lies the point - for the last 16 years I've played a lot... but practiced practically nothing

 

[UnsungHeroGuitars]

I used the old tried and true method... become a hermit, stop answering the phone, continually turn down any and all social engagements, practice, practice, practice. I think this is the shortest route... though, clearly not the most practical. I should add... I am single, have no dependents, live alone and tend towards being anti-social (nothing against people... I just don't like them ).

Also... that is the first time in my life that I've used a 'smiley face' emoticon. See?... anything is possible...

Haha! I don't think I'll be going down that particular road, but I'm glad it worked for you... and I'm also delighted to have actually made you smile!