Stage Monitor Feedback

[maxdown]

Wait a minute ... this was a house PA and foldback, a strange (as in not the band's 'regular' if existing) sound guy and you're using the Axe without a backline style cab - just a feed to FOH and a feed back to a stage monitor?

Sounds like a combination of excess volume, the eq'ing and quality of stage monitor to me. The xover in the wedge could have been crap or the highs accentuated too much (the hiss). All the usual issues with playing with house resident equipment.

Without the conventional backline set up you become totally dependent on the wedge .... a big departure for a lot of guitarists coming from tube rigs. You generally have two choices once the eq is set right - 1. lower the stage volumes or if it's got to be loud 2. Angle the wedge away a bit from you - try it as a sidefill?

[edit - oops Cliff snuck in there while I was sharpening my pencil]

 

[pjrake]

I can understand you wanting to avoid a noise gate coming from using a tube set up but don't be afraid of it on the axe. It won't do a single thing to your tone. Theres basically already an input gate on every patch anyway, you just have to turn it up to make it work. Page over to IN/GTE and adjust to your preferences. You can easily set it just low enough to cut out the noises you don't want and make it seem like its not there at all.

Also, are you using a drive pedal with the FAS Modern? Because that amp with the gain at noon plus a drive pedal is a pretty decent amount of gain. I use a T808 OD with the FAS and similar amps and with my gain only around 10 o'clock I can get some pretty bad feedback at stage volume through my Mackie.

Thanks!

I'll bump up the gate a bit.

Not using a boost, although I used to when I had my tube amp. My only blocks are amp and cab, and have the amp block's gain dialed in at 12 o'clock.

 

[pjrake]

You were probably getting magnetic feedback. This happens with stage monitors more than regular guitar cabs if you are too close. The feedback is from the monitors tweeter motor into the pickups. Relying on stage monitors is, IMO, a prescription for disaster. Use your own monitoring.

I think you are right, now that I think about where I was standing! Had the Mackie (temp solution), but since their monitors were so loud I just unplugged mine (mid set, too).

Thanks!!!

 

[JoeyBTL]

I usually just tell them I don't want myself through the stage monitors at all and just rely on my HD1221. It makes it easier for them, it doesn't create any feedback problems, and it usually is better than the monitors they have anyway.

 

[pjrake]

Wait a minute ... this was a house PA and foldback, a strange (as in not the band's 'regular' if existing) sound guy and you're using the Axe without a backline style cab - just a feed to FOH and a feed back to a stage monitor?

Sounds like a combination of excess volume, the eq'ing and quality of stage monitor to me. The xover in the wedge could have been crap or the highs accentuated too much (the hiss). All the usual issues with playing with house resident equipment.

Without the conventional backline set up you become totally dependent on the wedge .... a big departure for a lot of guitarists coming from tube rigs. You generally have two choices once the eq is set right - 1. lower the stage volumes or if it's got to be loud 2. Angle the wedge away a bit from you - try it as a sidefill?

[edit - oops Cliff snuck in there while I was sharpening my pencil]

LOL

The first time I used it the stage monitoring system was amazing (opening for Nonpoint and Hinder) so we decided not to use our own monitors (btw: my other guitarist uses an Orange 2x12 for his "monitor"). The second gig, the stage was so small we didn't even have room for any of our own monitors, so we relied on the house monitors (and didn't have any feedback issue). Last night, we felt pretty comfortable so we said let's just use their system. My other guitarist left his cab in the trailer; I set up my Mackie, but had it on real low, since we were using their stage monitors.

We didn't get a soundcheck, just a line check, and it was sounding fine, but once I started moving around and switching presets (my pedalboard was by the monitor wedge) I noticed all the feedback.

Trust me, I jumped right in without using my trusty 4x12... and still thinking of going the Matrix/traditional cab route (but still send a direct line to FOH) just so I can feel more "comfortable"...

 

[pjrake]

I usually just tell them I don't want myself through the stage monitors at all and just rely on my HD1221. It makes it easier for them, it doesn't create any feedback problems, and it usually is better than the monitors they have anyway.

Yeah man, I think that's what I'm gonna do. I'm on the list for the CLR, so I think this issue will go away once I'm going that route.

 

[barhrecords]

You were probably getting magnetic feedback. This happens with stage monitors more than regular guitar cabs if you are too close. The feedback is from the monitors tweeter motor into the pickups. Relying on stage monitors is, IMO, a prescription for disaster. Use your own monitoring.

So with magnetic feedback, does potting the pups help? Is the magnetic field of the tweeter motor making the windings microphonic? or is just acting like the strings and causing the pups to generate current?

 

[boardwlk17]

If your pickups are microfonic you will hear it within whatever your playing through. There's different kind of feedback too! Microfonic feedback you should be able to put your fingers on the pickup and push on it or twist it and stop the microfonics. Turn your drive pedals up or your gain up and listen to the feedback. Stand in front of a cab and make it feedback. There's a lot of different kinds of feedback. I love the feedback that you have on a leash and its pulling you like a 150 pound dog but if out move a certain way or tug on the leash(volume) it will sit right down for you, if you tell it to Attack it shows its Teeth.
I love this mysterious Black Box . Gary

 

[FractalAudio]

So with magnetic feedback, does potting the pups help? Is the magnetic field of the tweeter motor making the windings microphonic? or is just acting like the strings and causing the pups to generate current?

I don't think so. It's a magnetic coupling. Microphonic windings are acoustic coupling. Some monitors seem more prone to this than others. I'm not sure what the determining factor is although I would imagine shielding and orientation are primary concerns.

 

[mojik]

Relying on stage monitors is, IMO, a prescription for disaster. Use your own monitoring.

The exception to this is, IMO, high quality/concert stage monitoring (JBL's wedges and sidefill with QSC power amps etc). My experience with them has been really positive and has provided me with much better monitoring than I could possibly afford to buy. If you have the opportunity of playing with this sort of equipment, I would suggest leaving your own monitoring at home.

YMMV etc.

Cheers,
Mo.

 

[boardwlk17]

Relying on stage monitors is, IMO, a prescription for disaster. Use your own monitoring.

That's why with my Bradshaw Rig I always covered my own solos with a volume Boost and now with the axefx2 I will do the same thing even if I go through the monitors I will still go through my Matrix GT-1000 and my Marshall cabs and thinking about adding some fr/fr I think a blend of both is worth a test. If you have a permanent sound tech and he's good that's a different story.