Spongy sound with bass amp models

[Lars Lerager]

Hi there. New to the Axe Fx world - however:

It seems that I get a spongy sound when using the bass amp models - Ampeg SVT, Mesa/Boogie 400 and to a lesser extent the Orange AD200. Maybe it's just the nature of tube amps, but I really hate how they seems to eat most of the attack and definition of the notes I play. I actually think that I can sometimes get a better sound, just by using a Drive block (e.g. the FET preamp) and a cab model.
However, I like the tone controls and the harmonics added by the amp models. Is there any way to make them less "spongy"? Would it make sense to reduce the power amp sagging or adjust some other parameters?

Thanks,
Lars

 

[Brownmatthall]

Reducing sag is definitely a way to go (something I'd probably do too honestly), what's your master volume set to on these patches? Are you using the compressor block? Which IR are you using?

 

[Lars Lerager]

I'm using the stock IR's. Everything at 12 o'clock or whatever the default is, except for the presence control which I have around 2 to emphasise harmonics.
I do use compression: a multiband in the front of the chain, and the studio compressor at the end, but they barely touch the signal. I've tried bypassing individual blocks, and it is definitely the amp block that is killing the attack.

 

[Brownmatthall]

I'm using the stock IR's. Everything at 12 o'clock or whatever the default is, except for the presence control which I have around 2 to emphasise harmonics.
I do use compression: a multiband in the front of the chain, and the studio compressor at the end, but they barely touch the signal. I've tried bypassing individual blocks, and it is definitely the amp block that is killing the attack.

My bets on the IR, the stock ones are known to be dark and squishy (most people here circumvent the stock ones entirely). It sucks that theres nothing ITB that sounds great right away like it is for guitars but there are 3rd party options to be had for cheap. For now try dialing back the master and depth and bumping the output vol up to compensate?

 

[DLM]

Or use a null filter block after the amp instead of a cab block and set it to roll off the lows between 60-75Hz (to taste) and the highs anywhere you like below 6.5KHz (to taste). The low end roll off will tighten up the bottom end for you.

 

[Lars Lerager]

My bets on the IR, the stock ones are known to be dark and squishy (most people here circumvent the stock ones entirely). It sucks that theres nothing ITB that sounds great right away like it is for guitars but there are 3rd party options to be had for cheap. For now try dialing back the master and depth and bumping the output vol up to compensate?

I really don't think it's the IR's, but I will definitely try some other ones than the stock. I'm also planning to rent some studio-time with band mates, to do profiles for their Kemper amps and IR's for me.
To my knowledge, you can only model phase and frequency response with IR's - not dynamic compression like what I seem to experience.

Like I said, bypass the amp block and all the attack and definition goodness comes back (and unfortunately the nice upper harmonics disappear). I'll do some knob-twiddling on the SVT model, and see what I come up with. I have never owned an SVT, only played it on occasion, so I don't know exactly what it is supposed to sound like. I just know that the model in the Axe II isn't what I'm looking for in an amp.
I'll report back.

 

[jimfist]

With a multi-fx processor, if you don't hear what you like, then start with the simplest building blocks in order to isolate the problem. Use just the amp block and parameter that could conspire to mess with the attack, such as: input trim, input gain, Low Cut, dynamics comp, master volume/SAG, etc. If a bypassed bass tone is devoid of this attack problem, then there's no reason why you shouldn't have luck with the AxeFx flavoring the tone (with amp and cab blocks). Be careful with the MBC and Comp blocks for bass. They are tricky to "get right" for bass IMHO.

 

[Lars Lerager]

With a multi-fx processor, if you don't hear what you like, then start with the simplest building blocks in order to isolate the problem. Use just the amp block and parameter that could conspire to mess with the attack, such as: input trim, input gain, Low Cut, dynamics comp, master volume/SAG, etc. If a bypassed bass tone is devoid of this attack problem, then there's no reason why you shouldn't have luck with the AxeFx flavoring the tone (with amp and cab blocks). Be careful with the MBC and Comp blocks for bass. They are tricky to "get right" for bass IMHO.

I read one of your replies in an old thread and got inspired. I've always been happy with the tones I got from my SansAmp Bass Driver, so I went ahead and did a tonematch on it, just adding a bit of harmonic coloration from the FET preamp, or the Xotic BB preamp model for heavier tones. Ditched the amp and cab blocks altogether. That Axe thingie is powerful!

 

[jimfist]

That's the great thing about the AxeFx. There are so many ways to craft a tone with this piece of gear, it's incredible. I'm still baffled that Fractal hasn't included some flavor or version of SansAmp in either the Amp or Drive block. In my book, the SansAmp BDDI is one of the quickest tools to use to get a decent direct bass tone with little effort.