Soundcraft is hiding a design flaw in Signature MTK22 mixer

[lscottk]

Hello,

I have a Soundcraft Signature MTK22 mixer for my home studio. This mixer has a design defect that Harmon is not owning up to:

1. There is no power switch built in to the mixer. If you want to turn it off you have to unplug it or plug it in to a power strip and use the switch on the power strip.

2. There is heat build up if the mixer is left on. Heat build causes the USB power supply to fail. If the USB power supply fails then the mixer will no longer connect to a computer. When I sent in my mixer to Soundcraft for service I was told that the solution was to replace the USB power supply. This ended up costing me almost $400 with shipping. The first repair was completed in December 2019, replacing the USB power supply.

3. My mixer failed this last weekend (unfortunately 1 hour before I was going to record a live class for a friend). I called Soundcraft on Monday. The Tech said that the mixer must not be run continuously and must be turned off in order to avoid this problem. He did not say how long or how often the mixer needs to be turned off. I pressed the tech about this and asked why there is nothing said in the manual or online about this issue. The tech avoided answering my questions. He was acting like a weasel. He did not offer a reduced price for another repair and blamed me for not using the equipment properly, even though there is no documentation indicating that I have to compensate because the mixer does not have a switch. It was some of the worst customer service that I've ever experienced. The dude was a jerk.

5. I found a local Soundcraft Authorized service center so I would not have to pay for shipping (I live about an hour South of Seattle). I dropped the mixer off for repair yesterday. I asked the repair tech whether it is normal to have to turn off a mixer in order to avoid parts frying. He told me that he had an old Soundcraft TL2 that he left on for 20 years straight with no issues. So, apparently the heat buildup limitation in the Signature MTK 22 is not present in older Soundcraft mixers. So the practice of turning it off to avoid heat frying parts is not required by older, pre-Harmon Soundcraft mixers.

6. The Harmon/Soundcraft tech said that the 2nd power supply failure in a year and a half was due to my negligence because I did not power off the device. The tech's tone was condescending and argumentative. He took no ownership that there is no documentation, either online or in the manual, stating the limitation that the mixer must be turned off to avoid damage. Though I asked him where this was documented, either in the manual or somewhere online, he ignored my question, talked over me, and never answered my questions. I asked where the documentation is explaining how long it is safe to continously run the mixer; how many hours are safe to leave it powered on without causing damage; how frequently it must be turned off to avoid damage. He kept repeating that I must turn off the mixer to avoid damage and that my failure to do so made the damage my fault.

This mixer is almost $1000, cheap for a professional mixer, but still not your cheapo mixer either. And it can't be left on for extended periods without risking damage. Oh, and there is no switch build in to the mixer. And by the way, the requirement to turn it off is not documented. And if you don't turn it off it's your fault and Soundcraft will be glad to take your money to repair the problem. They will even take your money a second time to fix the same undocumented problem . . .

I am posting this as a warning. I suggest that my fellow Fractal forumites stay away from Harmon era Soundcraft products. Soundcraft, as it exists today, lacks integrity, do not properly design their equipment, and are happy to act condescending and blame customers for not following procedures that are not documented. I will never buy a Harmon era Soundcraft product again.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Bummer. That's just poor design and horrible CS.

 

[Sleestak]

That makes no sense. I agree this suggests a design flaw. I had an Ensoniq DP/4 effects processor back in the 90s. That thing was in the shop more than in my rig. In the year that I owned it, the motherboard was replaced twice; a daughterboard on a riser was installed, then failed and was subsequently removed. The power supply was replaced twice. Eventually, Ensoniq just shipped me a brand new unit. Which I immediately sold. Maybe I just got a lemon. Maybe they did a rev 2 that solved the issues I had experienced. But I just couldn't trust that device after it failed so many times.

 

[lscottk]

That makes no sense. I agree this suggests a design flaw. I had an Ensoniq DP/4 effects processor back in the 90s. That thing was in the shop more than in my rig. In the year that I owned it, the motherboard was replaced twice; a daughterboard on a riser was installed, then failed and was subsequently removed. The power supply was replaced twice. Eventually, Ensoniq just shipped me a brand new unit. Which I immediately sold. Maybe I just got a lemon. Maybe they did a rev 2 that solved the issues I had experienced. But I just couldn't trust that device after it failed so many times.

I feel for you, John. Your situation sounds much worse than mine. I'm fixing my mixer and then going to sell as well. Not sure yet what I'm going to buy to replace it.

 

[lauke-lux]

It's a problem with many of todays electronic or electromechanic devices, not only HK. I realise quite some equipment projects and the quantity/type of small equipments that grill or show faulty behaviour during commissioning is surprising, especially when parts are PRC origin. There's often something under the hood that once you see the faulty part afterwards sometimes you wonder how it could have even worked one single minute.

 

[Sleestak]

I feel for you, John. Your situation sounds much worse than mine. I'm fixing my mixer and then going to sell as well. Not sure yet what I'm going to buy to replace it.

That was definitely my worst run of luck in gear failure. It made me appreciate equipment that is super reliable (FRACTAL!) and has great support (same). Equipment will occasionally fail on the road. It's unavoidable given the travel and usage pattern. But studio gear that isn't getting moved around or re-patched regularly? That stuff should be as reliable as gravity. Anybody who tells you "this piece of solid state equipment can't be left powered up for more than xx hours per day" should be prepared to provide a very good explanation as to why (and I doubt there is one).

 

[lscottk]

That was definitely my worst run of luck in gear failure. It made me appreciate equipment that is super reliable (FRACTAL!) and has great support (same). Equipment will occasionally fail on the road. It's unavoidable given the travel and usage pattern. But studio gear that isn't getting moved around or re-patched regularly? That stuff should be as reliable as gravity. Anybody who tells you "this piece of solid state equipment can't be left powered up for more than xx hours per day" should be prepared to provide a very good explanation as to why (and I doubt there is one).

I couldn't agree more. What I experienced from HK is the opposite of the Fractal Audio support model. I guess that awesome Fractal customer service has spoiled me.

 

[lqdsnddist]

It has its drawbacks but it’s still a pretty stellar piece of kit for the money. I’ve had one for a while and there isn’t much else on the market that gives you 5 AuX sends, 4 buses, usb recording on every channel, 2 sweepable mid-band eqs, 100mm faders etc for the money.
All good and valid points you address of course, but I think the good still outweighs the bad sides as there really isn’t anything that offers what it does...

Tascam model 24 maybe, but give up a band of eq, only have 1 pre/post fader aux option, costs more etc

would be nice if they could improve ps, add power switch etc and have an updated version though for sure

 

[pauly]

Hi @lscottk
Sorry to be a negative Nancy, but the answer is right in front of you. In theory, it should be fine to leave things on for ever, but if you just got a power board with a switch, and took their advice (turn the thing off when you are finished with it), life would be good and you could just use your mixer as you like.
Take their advice and move on! Hope you have good luck from then on.
Thanks
Pauly

Hello,

I have a Soundcraft Signature MTK22 mixer for my home studio. This mixer has a design defect that Harmon is not owning up to:

1. There is no power switch built in to the mixer. If you want to turn it off you have to unplug it or plug it in to a power strip and use the switch on the power strip.

2. There is heat build up if the mixer is left on. Heat build causes the USB power supply to fail. If the USB power supply fails then the mixer will no longer connect to a computer. When I sent in my mixer to Soundcraft for service I was told that the solution was to replace the USB power supply. This ended up costing me almost $400 with shipping. The first repair was completed in December 2019, replacing the USB power supply.

3. My mixer failed this last weekend (unfortunately 1 hour before I was going to record a live class for a friend). I called Soundcraft on Monday. The Tech said that the mixer must not be run continuously and must be turned off in order to avoid this problem. He did not say how long or how often the mixer needs to be turned off. I pressed the tech about this and asked why there is nothing said in the manual or online about this issue. The tech avoided answering my questions. He was acting like a weasel. He did not offer a reduced price for another repair and blamed me for not using the equipment properly, even though there is no documentation indicating that I have to compensate because the mixer does not have a switch. It was some of the worst customer service that I've ever experienced. The dude was a jerk.

5. I found a local Soundcraft Authorized service center so I would not have to pay for shipping (I live about an hour South of Seattle). I dropped the mixer off for repair yesterday. I asked the repair tech whether it is normal to have to turn off a mixer in order to avoid parts frying. He told me that he had an old Soundcraft TL2 that he left on for 20 years straight with no issues. So, apparently the heat buildup limitation in the Signature MTK 22 is not present in older Soundcraft mixers. So the practice of turning it off to avoid heat frying parts is not required by older, pre-Harmon Soundcraft mixers.

6. The Harmon/Soundcraft tech said that the 2nd power supply failure in a year and a half was due to my negligence because I did not power off the device. The tech's tone was condescending and argumentative. He took no ownership that there is no documentation, either online or in the manual, stating the limitation that the mixer must be turned off to avoid damage. Though I asked him where this was documented, either in the manual or somewhere online, he ignored my question, talked over me, and never answered my questions. I asked where the documentation is explaining how long it is safe to continously run the mixer; how many hours are safe to leave it powered on without causing damage; how frequently it must be turned off to avoid damage. He kept repeating that I must turn off the mixer to avoid damage and that my failure to do so made the damage my fault.

This mixer is almost $1000, cheap for a professional mixer, but still not your cheapo mixer either. And it can't be left on for extended periods without risking damage. Oh, and there is no switch build in to the mixer. And by the way, the requirement to turn it off is not documented. And if you don't turn it off it's your fault and Soundcraft will be glad to take your money to repair the problem. They will even take your money a second time to fix the same undocumented problem . . .

I am posting this as a warning. I suggest that my fellow Fractal forumites stay away from Harmon era Soundcraft products. Soundcraft, as it exists today, lacks integrity, do not properly design their equipment, and are happy to act condescending and blame customers for not following procedures that are not documented. I will never buy a Harmon era Soundcraft product again.

 

[lscottk]

It has its drawbacks but it’s still a pretty stellar piece of kit for the money. I’ve had one for a while and there isn’t much else on the market that gives you 5 AuX sends, 4 buses, usb recording on every channel, 2 sweepable mid-band eqs, 100mm faders etc for the money.
All good and valid points you address of course, but I think the good still outweighs the bad sides as there really isn’t anything that offers what it does...

Tascam model 24 maybe, but give up a band of eq, only have 1 pre/post fader aux option, costs more etc

would be nice if they could improve ps, add power switch etc and have an updated version though for sure

I agree that the feature set is great. My complaint is that:

1. A fundamental operational issue is not documented anywhere by the manufacturer.

2. The design of the equipment does not support the required operation (there is no power switch) and even implies that it's okay to leave the equipment on.

3. When I attempted to discuss this with Soundcraft tech support they were defensive, blaming, and evasive by not answering my questions

4. No verbal or written instructions on what they consider safe operational parameters - "you may leave this mixer powered on for "X hours" before risking damage

5. Their tech support treated me as if I made the mistake because I did not follow their undocumented requirements necessary to avoid damage

6. Their technician's customer support was abhorrent - condescending, evasive, no attempt to provide compromise or make the customer happy

But I do agree that the feature set is great. That's a primary reason that I bought it in the first place.

 

[lscottk]

Hi @lscottk
Sorry to be a negative Nancy, but the answer is right in front of you. In theory, it should be fine to leave things on for ever, but if you just got a power board with a switch, and took their advice (turn the thing off when you are finished with it), life would be good and you could just use your mixer as you like.
Take their advice and move on! Hope you have good luck from then on.
Thanks
Pauly

Hi Pauly,

I agree that life is good and I am moving on. My intention is to share my experience so that other's are not bitten the same way that I was.

Best,
Scott

 

[Justincase]

Yep...I'd be pissed too. I wouldn't buy any Harmon products again. Since you are stuck with it maybe modding it and installing a power switch would be a viable option. Shouldn't be difficult.

 

[tealtonerick]

Hello,

I have a Soundcraft Signature MTK22 mixer for my home studio. This mixer has a design defect that Harmon is not owning up to:

1. There is no power switch built in to the mixer. If you want to turn it off you have to unplug it or plug it in to a power strip and use the switch on the power strip.

2. There is heat build up if the mixer is left on. Heat build causes the USB power supply to fail. If the USB power supply fails then the mixer will no longer connect to a computer. When I sent in my mixer to Soundcraft for service I was told that the solution was to replace the USB power supply. This ended up costing me almost $400 with shipping. The first repair was completed in December 2019, replacing the USB power supply.

3. My mixer failed this last weekend (unfortunately 1 hour before I was going to record a live class for a friend). I called Soundcraft on Monday. The Tech said that the mixer must not be run continuously and must be turned off in order to avoid this problem. He did not say how long or how often the mixer needs to be turned off. I pressed the tech about this and asked why there is nothing said in the manual or online about this issue. The tech avoided answering my questions. He was acting like a weasel. He did not offer a reduced price for another repair and blamed me for not using the equipment properly, even though there is no documentation indicating that I have to compensate because the mixer does not have a switch. It was some of the worst customer service that I've ever experienced. The dude was a jerk.

5. I found a local Soundcraft Authorized service center so I would not have to pay for shipping (I live about an hour South of Seattle). I dropped the mixer off for repair yesterday. I asked the repair tech whether it is normal to have to turn off a mixer in order to avoid parts frying. He told me that he had an old Soundcraft TL2 that he left on for 20 years straight with no issues. So, apparently the heat buildup limitation in the Signature MTK 22 is not present in older Soundcraft mixers. So the practice of turning it off to avoid heat frying parts is not required by older, pre-Harmon Soundcraft mixers.

6. The Harmon/Soundcraft tech said that the 2nd power supply failure in a year and a half was due to my negligence because I did not power off the device. The tech's tone was condescending and argumentative. He took no ownership that there is no documentation, either online or in the manual, stating the limitation that the mixer must be turned off to avoid damage. Though I asked him where this was documented, either in the manual or somewhere online, he ignored my question, talked over me, and never answered my questions. I asked where the documentation is explaining how long it is safe to continously run the mixer; how many hours are safe to leave it powered on without causing damage; how frequently it must be turned off to avoid damage. He kept repeating that I must turn off the mixer to avoid damage and that my failure to do so made the damage my fault.

This mixer is almost $1000, cheap for a professional mixer, but still not your cheapo mixer either. And it can't be left on for extended periods without risking damage. Oh, and there is no switch build in to the mixer. And by the way, the requirement to turn it off is not documented. And if you don't turn it off it's your fault and Soundcraft will be glad to take your money to repair the problem. They will even take your money a second time to fix the same undocumented problem . . .

I am posting this as a warning. I suggest that my fellow Fractal forumites stay away from Harmon era Soundcraft products. Soundcraft, as it exists today, lacks integrity, do not properly design their equipment, and are happy to act condescending and blame customers for not following procedures that are not documented. I will never buy a Harmon era Soundcraft product again.

I have the Soundcraft Ui24R. Do you know if there is any commonality as far as USB hardware is concerned? Thanks!

 

[lscottk]

Yep...I'd be pissed too. I wouldn't buy any Harmon products again. Since you are stuck with it maybe modding it and installing a power switch would be a viable option. Shouldn't be difficult.

I am not sure what I am going to do with it. I may keep it and I may sell it. If I keep it I will just use it with a power strip. I know someone who is willing to buy it, but his offer would be a loss for me.

If the Sounbtech guy had answered my questions, taken ownership of the design flaws of their product, provided documentation of how to safely operate their product, and had acted reasonably decently towards me then I wouldn't have started this thread.

 

[lscottk]

I have the Soundcraft Ui24R. Do you know if there is any commonality as far as USB hardware is concerned? Thanks!

I have the Soundcraft Ui24R. Do you know if there is any commonality as far as USB hardware is concerned? Thanks!

I couldn't find any forum online that discussed Soundcraft USB issues. I searched pretty throughly. Soundcraft product reviews seem generally positive. It is quite possible that the issue I'm dealing with is a design flaw in the board I have. It's about 6 - 7 years old. They may have redesigned the newer models so that the USB power supply failure is no longer an issue.

I was surprised not to hear others having a similar experience. But your product is significantly different than mine. Though I obviously am not a spokesman for Soundcraft, it seems unlikely that your product would have the same problem as mine. If you're concerned you could always call Soundcraft tech support and ask them if it safe to leave your mixer on most and or all of the time. I'd be curious what they tell you. Maybe you will have a more positive experience than mine. Plus the tech you speak to might be more forthcoming. They've gotta have someone there who understands customer service, right?

 

[lqdsnddist]

From what I understand, a number of the soundcraft designers left the company after the designs were changed a bit from what they envisioned. No doubt cost cutting measures.... they went on to start their own company, but much of the classic soundcraft features still carried over to the mtk series.

love the soundcraft routing flexibility though with 5 aux sends and the option to make ALL of them pre or post fader. So much better than mackie and only giving you like one flexible aux routing.

would be great to have a new version, better PS, power switch, maybe some inserts on each channel, pre\post send for the usb etc though. Probably end up in a different price class with all that stuff though.

I use a power strip and a behringer control knob for volume on the main outs as it has no control room out, and those two things solve most of my issues

the ability to have so many channels, multi track record as well as have latency free live monitoring, and being able to patch in a ton of external processing via aux or dedicated buses is unmatched though.

Axe III is especially cool as I can set up a few dedicated delays per input and then also have something like a stereo bus reverb or compressor.

could do lots of that same stuff in a DAW but hardware is more fun to work with lol

 

[tealtonerick]

I couldn't find any forum online that discussed Soundcraft USB issues. I searched pretty throughly. Soundcraft product reviews seem generally positive. It is quite possible that the issue I'm dealing with is a design flaw in the board I have. It's about 6 - 7 years old. They may have redesigned the newer models so that the USB power supply failure is no longer an issue.

I was surprised not to hear others having a similar experience. But your product is significantly different than mine. Though I obviously am not a spokesman for Soundcraft, it seems unlikely that your product would have the same problem as mine. If you're concerned you could always call Soundcraft tech support and ask them if it safe to leave your mixer on most and or all of the time. I'd be curious what they tell you. Maybe you will have a more positive experience than mine. Plus the tech you speak to might be more forthcoming. They've gotta have someone there who understands customer service, right?

Yeah I don't really have a problem with it. Mine being a more "digital" kind of unit, I do have some occasional glitches that a power cycle seems to resolve. But generally I am very pleased with the mixer sound and functionality for the money. I was just wondering if their products shared certain common implementations for utility features like USB or even other subsystems like power supplies. More a curiosity that might lead to insight if I ever do have a similar problem such as yours with anything Soundcraft builds. I do appreciate you pointing it out and also your experience with tech support. One really gets spoiled by the level of support that we get from Fractal here in this forum. I can only hope that Harmon and others are paying attention.

 

[lscottk]

Yeah I don't really have a problem with it. Mine being a more "digital" kind of unit, I do have some occasional glitches that a power cycle seems to resolve. But generally I am very pleased with the mixer sound and functionality for the money. I was just wondering if their products shared certain common implementations for utility features like USB or even other subsystems like power supplies. More a curiosity that might lead to insight if I ever do have a similar problem such as yours with anything Soundcraft builds. I do appreciate you pointing it out and also your experience with tech support. One really gets spoiled by the level of support that we get from Fractal here in this forum. I can only hope that Harmon and others are paying attention.

I agree with you on all points

 

[lscottk]

From what I understand, a number of the soundcraft designers left the company after the designs were changed a bit from what they envisioned. No doubt cost cutting measures.... they went on to start their own company, but much of the classic soundcraft features still carried over to the mtk series.

love the soundcraft routing flexibility though with 5 aux sends and the option to make ALL of them pre or post fader. So much better than mackie and only giving you like one flexible aux routing.

would be great to have a new version, better PS, power switch, maybe some inserts on each channel, pre\post send for the usb etc though. Probably end up in a different price class with all that stuff though.

I use a power strip and a behringer control knob for volume on the main outs as it has no control room out, and those two things solve most of my issues

the ability to have so many channels, multi track record as well as have latency free live monitoring, and being able to patch in a ton of external processing via aux or dedicated buses is unmatched though.

Axe III is especially cool as I can set up a few dedicated delays per input and then also have something like a stereo bus reverb or compressor.

could do lots of that same stuff in a DAW but hardware is more fun to work with lol

The features on this are great. I just wish that the design was better, the documentation was better, ownership of problems was oriented to the customer's best interest, and that tech support staff were friendly and helpful rather than accusatory and shaming.

You seem much more knowledgeable about mixers than I am. If you were buying a 16 channel mixer suitable for small live gigs that also supports recording individual tracks in a DAW what would be on your list?

You mentioned the Tascam 24. If I replace my MTK22 I want to downsize. What are thoughts on the Tascam 12. A Sound on Sound review said they made some changes that improve on the Tascam 24

 

[lqdsnddist]

The features on this are great. I just wish that the design was better, the documentation was better, ownership of problems was oriented to the customer's best interest, and that tech support staff were friendly and helpful rather than accusatory and shaming.

You seem much more knowledgeable about mixers than I am. If you were buying a 16 channel mixer suitable for small live gigs that also supports recording individual tracks in a DAW what would be on your list?

You mentioned the Tascam 24. If I replace my MTK22 I want to downsize. What are thoughts on the Tascam 12. A Sound on Sound review said they made some changes that improve on the Tascam 24

I had a model 12 and it was really cool for what it was, but it was rather limiting as it had only 6 mono channels and 2 stereo channels. Also had only 2 aux sends and you need to use channels for returns so it’s pretty limiting in terms of channels.

what is cool is you can record each channel to the SD card, and unlike most anything else on the market, it had midi so you can sync drum machines etc and have your multiple tracks synced for overdubbing. Sadly can’t be a slave though, only master.

also unique is it can record pre or post eq, comp etc, unlike the MTK which takes the usb input from the input of the mixer. I personally don’t mind this as I don’t want to record my eq etc, as I’d rather play those back via usb return and eq stuff in the context of the overall mix. Still nice to have the flexibility though.
If they could make a 16 or 24 channel with the features of the 12 it would be pretty killer, but as it stands, the 12 is just a bit limiting in terms of channel count if your using stereo inputs, external effects etc.

probably great for singer songwriter type stuff, but I use a lot of synths and outboard effects, so I want lots of routing and also spare channels so I can have stereo returns for everything. Love the mkt22 for this since you can have like 14 mono input and then use 3 stereo channels for effects return, or playback of tracks from the computer over usb etc

Model 12 is pretty cool though. Hopefully more new stuff comes along based on some of its features and ability to work dawless