Sometimes Axe-Fx vs. Amp comparisons miss the point

I'd rather listen to Andre Watts or Oscar Peterson than an uninspired hack. I'd also rather listen to Andre Watts or Oscar Peterson play a world-class grand than a crappy spinet. I'm missing something here.
 
Everyone musician is different. Some start with the notes. I never start with the notes, I start with the sound. Sound and feel inspires. If the sound/ timbre/ feel etc is wrong, I can't play, it doesn't express me, it expresses someone else and I lose interest. Therefore, the right gear to me is critical and without it, I wouldn't create or play.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
Got it. I take it out and read it every couple years. I recently recommended it to my sister, a classical pianist, and she loves it.
Click to expand...

Both the book and you tube video made me think of John McLaughlin. I think of his guitar music when I think about transcending the instrument.

Thanks for both links,
Richard
 
bufon63 said:
Therefore, the right gear to me is critical and without it, I wouldn't create or play.
Click to expand...
I tend to think of what would still be possible in the absence of, say, a power grid. I like to think I could come up with a way to create music even if I were stranded on a desert island. Whether or not I could successfully do that, I do see it as a valuable philosophical objective.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
I tend to think of what would still be possible in the absence of, say, a power grid. I like to think I could come up with a way to create music even if I were stranded on a desert island. Whether or not I could successfully do that, I do see it as a valuable philosophical objective.
Click to expand...

Jay that is an interesting thought, if on a desert island, even though I could sing or improvise an instrument or at least bang two sticks together, would I want to? I would hope I would.

Food for thought for me,
Richard
 
Jay Mitchell said:
I tend to think of what would still be possible in the absence of, say, a power grid. I like to think I could come up with a way to create music even if I were stranded on a desert island. Whether or not I could successfully do that, I do see it as a valuable philosophical objective.
Click to expand...

I would say "spiritually" not "philosophically". The moment music is “philosophical” from my experience, it becomes academic and academic = no spirit. Some musicians/ creatives are more adaptable than others when pushed to emotional and material extremes, (a desert island), as you suggest. Sadly, as much as I love ethnic music and instruments, I'm hooked and dependent on technology. However, one 's true spirit often only shines through in extreme situations in life. So, if I were on a desert island what would I do? Probably make a drum, for example (not that I can play one), but knowing me, I'd always be on the hunt for the wood/skin which resonates best, has the right timbre and expresses me otherwise, seriously and back to my subjective point, I wouldn't play.

In western society, music is predominantly a form of entertainment. In more primitive cultures, it is a function. I wish that were the case with me too because I'm missing out on something in life I believe
 
Last edited:
Personally, I've travelled around the world twice without regular access to an electric guitar or amp. My own experience was that I got a lot more musical learning done through my old acoustic in those two years than I have done in the last five with an electric. That's the closest I have come to the proverbial desert island, and I discovered that I need music in my life. There's just no other way.

I sit back sometimes with my Rodriguez classical and I just love to hear the notes breathe. I can improvise over Jazz and Blues, play a lot of high gain stuff, but at the end, the people I most respect are the classical composers because they couldn't hear it first. The music for them, lived in their heads first, and was born of inspiration, not experimentation.

Just a thought. lol
 
BigD1977 said:
My own experience was that I got a lot more musical learning done through my old acoustic in those two years than I have done in the last five with an electric.
Click to expand...
I agree. I always practice more unamplified than I do through a rig. I use my rig when I'm developing sounds and to recalibrate my touch for amplified playing, but I learn musical ideas playing acoustically.

That's the closest I have come to the proverbial desert island, and I discovered that I need music in my life. There's just no other way.
Click to expand...
AAgain, I'm in complete agreement. I've told friends who ask that music is something that I don't have the option not to do.

but at the end, the people I most respect are the classical composers because they couldn't hear it first.
Click to expand...
I'm with you there as well. Much of modern music comes directly from the classical composers. The jazz players whom I most respect - e.g., Jim Hall, Bill Evans - have a very compositionally-based approach to improvisation.
 
BigD1977 said:
Personally, I've travelled around the world twice without regular access to an electric guitar or amp. My own experience was that I got a lot more musical learning done through my old acoustic in those two years than I have done in the last five with an electric. That's the closest I have come to the proverbial desert island, and I discovered that I need music in my life. There's just no other way.

I sit back sometimes with my Rodriguez classical and I just love to hear the notes breathe. I can improvise over Jazz and Blues, play a lot of high gain stuff, but at the end, the people I most respect are the classical composers because they couldn't hear it first. The music for them, lived in their heads first, and was born of inspiration, not experimentation.

Just a thought. lol
Click to expand...

I love the sound of a sweet nylon! :)
 
Stravinsky and indigenous tribal musicians clearly have different perspectives on the creative process. Obviously, one man's process doesn't serve another's.
 
Last edited:
bufon63 said:
Stravinsky and indigenous tribal musicians clearly have different perspectives on the creative process. Obviously, one man's process doesn't serve another's.
Click to expand...
Having referenced neither myself, I'm not sure exactly what your point is.

Having pointed out the above, I observe that the obvious common thread in the two extremes you mention is music itself. It exists and can be perceived entirely apart from the tools used to make it. That is a spiritual observation, BTW.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
Having referenced neither myself, I'm not sure exactly what your point is.

Having pointed out the above, I observe that the obvious common thread in the two extremes you mention is music itself. It exists and can be perceived entirely apart from the tools used to make it. That is a spiritual observation, BTW.
Click to expand...

Not exactly sure what your point is either; don't actually understand "it exists......" etc. Re; "referencing", my last post was not aimed at anyone.
 
Last edited:
Jay Mitchell said:
Having referenced neither myself, I'm not sure exactly what your point is.

Having pointed out the above, I observe that the obvious common thread in the two extremes you mention is music itself. It exists and can be perceived entirely apart from the tools used to make it. That is a spiritual observation, BTW.
Click to expand...

It is interesting how and what different people interpret as music.

I can comprehend free jazz as being music but I get a little stretched by musique conrete :)

But your observation that the thing called "music" is separate from instruments, voices, or techniques (or even harmony, melody etc. in the case of musique concrete) is spot on.

Richard
 
I remember being captivated by the sound of an unspeakably poor beggar/ street musician playing a primitive instrument I'd never seen in my life, even less heard, in Uganda. The man had nothing, truly nothing and was dressed in rags and with tyre rubber taped to his feet acting as shoes. The chaos of Kampala passed by as he anonymously played and sang from the heart which moved me to tears. I gave him what change I had on me and he smiled a beautiful African smile which cut me like a knife. He made me feel ashamed at having spent half of my life messing around with parameters while he could barely eat. He changed my life forever and I will never forget him. I am blessed and you probably are too.
 
Last edited:
To name a couple albums that use the Axe Fx, the new Devin Townsend album "Deconstruction" and also the new Born of Osiris album "The Discovery" :D

That being said, Devin could record an album with a shitty solid state spider practice amp and still make it sound huge because he is a genius at mixing and layers his tracks like crazy haha
 
BigD1977 said:
I kinda have the same idea, I don't like his tone too much, but I liked the idea that tubes are outdated.

Maybe he needs and Axe FX to sort himself out. LOL :D
Click to expand...


Thanks for the Hal Galper video. That was great. His book "Forward Motion" is something I've been very very slowly working on and it's brilliant. Made me think about hearing and Frank Gambale. I'm thinking about the difference between him and people like Bill Frisell, John Scofield, John Abercrombie, Nels Cline, Robben Ford etc. In the later's imaginations, their inner hearing, they're hearing sounds and subtleties of tone color and articulation responsiveness from their rigs that are light years beyond Gambale. Particularly with Frisell, Cline and Scofield, the amp plus pedals is a huge part of the instrument and when they play what's going through their heads, sometimes that involves hitting a pedal or 3 to get the color and sound they hear in the same way a purely acoustic player might pick harder or less hard or increase of decrease note length or chord density or place of attack on the string to get the sound out of their head.

In some cases, the Axe has given us a tool to make what we already knew was possible easier and more consistent. In others, it's opened the door to new sounds and given our imaginations new fuel. For me, one of the things I realize now that I have an Axe II (very lucky, yes, I know) is that the ease of getting basic good sounds on the II makes me feel much freer to experiment and push further. With the Ultra, I did some experimentation, but sometimes I'd get too frustrated by endless tweaking of more basic things and just want to get back to playing guitar. Within 10 minutes of owning the II, I had a sound I'd be happy playing for days.

Cool thread.
 
MikeyB59 said:
Cool thread.
Click to expand...
+1
Finally an adult conversation on this forum. I'm new at all things AXE, but glad to hear that the 2G unit I'm on a waiting list for seems to be better at playing than tweaking.
And I've got a Godin Multiac on order 8) ...
Looking forward to spending more time around here when the AXE2 gets delivered finally.

Cheers,

Benji
 
Fro said:
I struggled for months in frustration when I tried to make the Axe Fx sound exactly like my real amp. I started having fun with it when I just tried to make it sound good with no intention of duplicating any specific sound, and it was a lot easier. Now I see it as endless possibilities, not just recreating what I've already done.
Click to expand...

Exactly my experience. I'm not a good enough tweaker to exactly match my customised Fender Twin and Princeton. But in trying to emulate them, I stumbled into something BETTER. Sort of like the 'Ultimate Fender Amp Sound' - and the tubes never go bad! Now I am unfurling the sails to sail for more distand shores with my II, including, possibly, playing with the whole NF/FF IR thing. But the best decision I ever made vis a vis my Ultra was to stop obsessing whether the thing was exact enough, and just playing the hell out oif it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom