SOLVED: FM3 in front of 2204, Noisy, tone...

Fizz

Fizz

Inspired
Hey all, I got a new Ceriatone 2204 that sounds fantastic. I thought it would be cool to test different drives with the FM3 in front but it is very noisy and causes a little tone suck. I'm using Output two to the front of the amp with a regular guitar cable. I have an XLR to TS coming in the mail to try with Output 1.

My brand new SD-1 arrived yesterday and it sounds great with no added noise so I know what it is supposed to sound like.. so is the 2204 just not a good amp to use with the FM3? Or am I doing something wrong and the XLR to TS out of Output 1 will clear this up?

The SD-1 on the FM3 didn't sound like the real one at all because of the tone suck. The amp lost all its magic.
 
I'm not in front of it now but: Input 1 to the Drive and then to Output 2. Every thing was left as is in the blocks except I put the level of the Super OD all the way up and the gain down to 9 o'clock. I had to reduce the level on Output 2 to prevent clipping.
 
I really don't think they are at their best on front of a tube Amp. They obviously can work but I view it as a convenience option rather than a "this is the ideal way to use the tube Amp". Option.

Boost/pad trades d/a hiss against output headroom. If you reduce hiss this way you won't be able to boost a tube Amp (much) without clipping that output.

Killer in the loop or after a reactive load or to make a FOH feed, or a million other things, etc...
 
Chris Hurley said:
I really don't think they are at their best on front of a tube Amp. They obviously can work but I view it as a convenience option rather than a "this is the ideal way to use the tube Amp". Option.

Boost/pad trades d/a hiss against output headroom. If you reduce hiss this way you won't be able to boost a tube Amp (much) without clipping that output.

Killer in the loop or after a reactive load or to make a FOH feed, or a million other things, etc...
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That's probably what I will use it for... I haven't tried it in the loop yet.. and those are generally where the most expense of the pedal board is anyway.

I was hoping to test drive some drives in front just to see if there was a particular pedal I wanted to buy or build.

My Laney IRT Studio was dead quiet with the FM3 in front. I didn't try it before I got the SD-1 so I'll have to test them side by side and see how close they are. That could be a good way to test the FM3 drive pedals but I prefer the sound of my 2204 and the Laney and 2204 take pedals differently up front. It will be a fun test anyway if it works.

Thanks @Chris Hurley and @yek for the help
 
@2112 has an awesome video on this:


No tone suck.. I did both options with Preamp as amp, & Preamp as FM3.
It worked so well... I bought a tube power amp.

Good luck
 
wyzyguy said:
@2112 has an awesome video on this:


No tone suck.. I did both options with Preamp as amp, & Preamp as FM3.
It worked so well... I bought a tube power amp.

Good luck
Click to expand...

I just got my XLR to TS cable today so I'll have to give this a try and hope that it isn't noisy that way.
 
So essentially, you are running a pre-amp into another pre-amp? No wonder things are noisy.
Have you tried running it into the return of the FX loop on the back of the amp? This way you are bypassing the pre-amp section of the amp and only using the Tube section for the poweramp.

I've tried it this way when I had my Friedman and it sounded great with the cab modelling off and the power amp modelling off. It was pretty much spot on and hence why I sold the amp!
 
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Fizz said:
That's probably what I will use it for... I haven't tried it in the loop yet.. and those are generally where the most expense of the pedal board is anyway.

I was hoping to test drive some drives in front just to see if there was a particular pedal I wanted to buy or build.

My Laney IRT Studio was dead quiet with the FM3 in front. I didn't try it before I got the SD-1 so I'll have to test them side by side and see how close they are. That could be a good way to test the FM3 drive pedals but I prefer the sound of my 2204 and the Laney and 2204 take pedals differently up front. It will be a fun test anyway if it works.

Thanks @Chris Hurley and @yek for the help
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I'd also recommend putting it in the loop and using the tube amp's power section.
 
PBGas said:
So essentially, you are running a pre-amp into another pre-amp? No wonder things are noisy.
Have you tried running it into the return of the FX loop on the back of the amp? This way you are bypassing the pre-amp section of the amp and only using the Tube section for the poweramp.

I've tried it this way when I had my Friedman and it sounded great with the cab modelling off and the power amp modelling off. It was pretty much spot on and hence why I sold the amp!
Click to expand...
That is not the effect I am going for... I love the sound of my 2204 and was hoping to use the drives on the Axe in front of it but it looks like it won't work with my amp. The manual even has instructions for doing exactly what I am trying to do so I don't know why you are being critical of the way I am doing it? As Yek posted above, look at page 34 of the manual. That is what I am doing, only I don't have a humbuster cable. In the video above, Leon Todd is not using a Humbuster. But my amp is not noisy with drives in front of it.
 
Rex said:
This is crucial. It suggests that you're running your FM3 at significantly higher gain than your pedals.
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Good to know.. should I back off the output volume with output 2 knob? The manual says to turn it all the way up for unity gain if desired. I can't do it now but will try that when I can.
 
Fizz said:
Good to know.. should I back off the output volume with output 2 knob? The manual says to turn it all the way up for unity gain if desired. I can't do it now but will try that when I can.
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That depends on how you've got Output 2 configured. If it's set up for line level, it's almost certainly too hot. If not, you should be fine all the way up.

But while you're thinking about gain, don't forget to consider how much gain you're giving in the Drive block itself. That can make a big difference on how much noise you get.
 
Fizz said:
I just got my XLR to TS cable today so I'll have to give this a try and hope that it isn't noisy that way.
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Yeah, I ran it the same way Leon demonstrates with a 5153 head. Sounded great and I eventually sold the amp and got a solid state power amp. Just didn’t need the tubes anymore lol
 
Fizz said:
I just got my XLR to TS cable today so I'll have to give this a try and hope that it isn't noisy that way.
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I finally got a chance to try the XLR to TS cable going from Output 1 L to the front of the amp. It sounded even worse until I inverted the Phase on Output 1 and it sounded really good. I have Output 1's output level at -10 and the mode at Copy L->R.

That sounded really good and I did it to test drives in front of the amp because I like the amp's tone with pedals.

Then I put the output from the FM3 into the loop and not only was it really quiet there but all the amps in the FM3 sounded tremendously good.. better than I've ever heard them and they might have even beat the amp's own preamp. Wow! I'm impressed... I've got all these Marshall-esq amp models going through these EL34's and it sounds just like the real amps.
 
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Fizz said:
Then I put the output from the FM3 into the loop and not only was it really quiet there but all the amps in the FM3 sounded tremendously good.. better than I've ever heard them and they might have even beat the amp's own preamp. Wow! I'm impressed... I've got all these Marshall-esk amp models going through these EL34's and it sounds just like the real amps.
Click to expand...

Yup. I run mine through a 4 x EL34 tube amp. GLORIOUS!!! :)
 
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