Solid state power amp + guitar cab: Use speaker compression or not?

L

Lilarcor

Inspired
The title says it all. Should we use speaker compression in conjunction with a solid state power amp and a guitar cab or just turn it to "0"?
The speakers in the cabinet should provide the compression otherwise added by "speaker compression" in the Axe Fx. Or is there a relevant difference between using a solid state power amp and a tube poweramp?

In the end it's always "use what sounds best to your ears" but I'm interested in what you think.
 
I play through a traditional cab too. The amount of compression you get from the actual speakers is going to depend on how loud you're playing. Pretty sure I rarely play loud enough to get any compression out of my cab. I don't think there is a "right" answer to this, just try it and see what sounds the best. So far I like having it add a dB or two of compression.
 
Lilarcor said:
The title says it all. Should we use speaker compression in conjunction with a solid state power amp and a guitar cab or just turn it to "0"?
The speakers in the cabinet should provide the compression otherwise added by "speaker compression" in the Axe Fx. Or is there a relevant difference between using a solid state power amp and a tube poweramp?

In the end it's always "use what sounds best to your ears" but I'm interested in what you think.
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I wrote this post just yesterday about this, maybe it can be of help (assuming my conclusions make any sense :D )
 
Of course if you go to both PA and to power amp/cab like many of us do you’re going to have to compromise one or the other.
 
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Thx for the answers so far. I know there isn't a right or wrong as long as it sounds good (and it does either way, that's the problem :D ).
How loud or hard must a speaker be driven to make it audidbly compress? I usually play at or slightly above bedroom level. I shouldn't have a significant amount of compression by the speaker itself if I understand this correctly.
 
It's a pretty obvious effect. I would say crank it up to gig volume and dial it to see how it feels. If you like it then crank it up.
 
I played a gig today, with a GT1000fx and 1x12 guitar cab. I had Speaker Comp at 3 in both amp models I use, to experiment. After turned 30 minutes I turned it off. Without a doubt the tone was much better without Speaker Comp. So my advice is: guitar cab => don’t use Speaker Comp
 
yek said:
I played a gig today, with a GT1000fx and 1x12 guitar cab. I had Speaker Comp at 3 in both amp models I use, to experiment. After turned 30 minutes I turned it off. Without a doubt the tone was much better without Speaker Comp. So my advice is: guitar cab => don’t use Speaker Comp
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I completely agree 100%.
 
I'll ask it in a different way: Let's put aside what sounds better (It's up to taste), but what is more physically correct / authentic? With speaker comp or without, when using a solid state power amp and a real cab?
 
FreeMind said:
I'll ask it in a different way: Let's put aside what sounds better (It's up to taste), but what is more physically correct / authentic? With speaker comp or without, when using a solid state power amp and a real cab?
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SPKR COMP models two things: speaker compression and its effect on a tube amp through the resulting change in speaker impedance.

If you're running a real cab, it's going to do the compression itself—if you drive it hard enough (you may not choose to). In that case, running with SPKR COMP on top of that would be less authentic.

But if you're running a solid-state power amp, the amp won't react to the changing impedance nearly as much as a tube amp would. In that case, running with SPKR COMP would be more authentic.

So which way is more "physically correct/authentic?" As it turns out, even that is a matter of taste. :)
 
Rex said:
SPKR COMP models two things: speaker compression and its effect on a tube amp through the resulting change in speaker impedance.

If you're running a real cab, it's going to do the compression itself—if you drive it hard enough (you may not choose to). In that case, running with SPKR COMP on top of that would be less authentic.

But if you're running a solid-state power amp, the amp won't react to the changing impedance nearly as much as a tube amp would. In that case, running with SPKR COMP would be more authentic.

So which way is more "physically correct/authentic?" As it turns out, even that is a matter of taste. :)
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I am really not a big fan of how this is implemented.
I believe, The aim should be, to make it react exactly like the real amp would, by default, when connected to a solid state amp and a real cab.
 
FreeMind said:
I believe, The aim should be, to make it react exactly like the real amp would, by default, when connected to a solid state amp and a real cab.
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Why? That's just one use case, and within the accuracy of a poll that was taken here some months ago, it's not the majority case.

Personally, I'd rather have things driven by best audience experience, whether that's via recording or through FOH, and IMO, that's been noticeably improved in the latest update. Feel is improved, too.
 
FreeMind said:
I am really not a big fan of how this is implemented.
I believe, The aim should be, to make it react exactly like the real amp would, by default, when connected to a solid state amp and a real cab.
Click to expand...

It's been stated that's it's not possible for a modeler to continuously measure the impedance of a speaker cabinet..
 
FreeMind said:
Because I believe that differences in how the amp reacts by default causes people to think that the modelling is not accurate.
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But what makes solid-state amp-into-guitar-cab the default? IMO, most people are pretty impressed by the accuracy.
 
It's a tricky subject.

Like Speaker Comp, the Low/High Resonance parameters on the SPKR page affect the interaction between power amp and speaker. These virtual parameters are important when using FRFR as well as with a neutral amp + guitar speaker.

When it comes to Speaker Comp, one may expect that this function is not needed when using a guitar speaker, because compression concerns the speaker alone.

But speaker compression and impedance are interconnected. This makes it difficult to determine what the player should do.

This is not just a matter of "use your ears".
 
Rex said:
But what makes solid-state amp-into-guitar-cab the default?
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By "Default", I meant settings, not the monitoring method.
I believe, that the Axe should sound exactly just like the real thing without any compromises... No matter what monitoring is used (real cab or frfr or both at the same time)... unless the user specifies otherwise in the settings. That's the dream :)
 
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yek said:
I played a gig today, with a GT1000fx and 1x12 guitar cab. I had Speaker Comp at 3 in both amp models I use, to experiment. After turned 30 minutes I turned it off. Without a doubt the tone was much better without Speaker Comp. So my advice is: guitar cab => don’t use Speaker Comp
Click to expand...

I initially withheld from making the upgrade because I figured I'd not like it for similar usage as yours. Went ahead this morning and upgraded to 9.01 and it turns out that actually...my guess was exactly right. However, I did like having it turned on while using cab block and headphones.

I think the part of SPKR COMP that deals with impedance side of things is likely not very audible compared to the actual simulated compression of the driver. Probably best to not drive ourselves crazy on this one
 
yek said:
I played a gig today, with a GT1000fx and 1x12 guitar cab. I had Speaker Comp at 3 in both amp models I use, to experiment. After turned 30 minutes I turned it off. Without a doubt the tone was much better without Speaker Comp. So my advice is: guitar cab => don’t use Speaker Comp
Click to expand...

For people who send Out 1 to FOH and Out 2 to power amp and cab, what would you recommend? 1.5?
 
FreeMind said:
By "Default", I meant settings, not the monitoring method.
I believe, that the Axe should sound exactly just like the real thing without any compromises... No matter what monitoring is used (real cab or frfr or both at the same time)... unless the user specifies otherwise in the settings. That's the dream :)
Click to expand...

That's tough, perhaps impossible. The piece being emulated is the interaction between the power amp and the speakers which is external to the emulator when a real guitar cabinet is being used.

I think the assumption is that with SS amp + FRFR monitor, the physical effect is effectively zero. So you can provide that emulation without worrying about the actual physical interaction. But when you replace the FRFR cabinet with a guitar cabinet, the physical effect is some unknown amount which cannot be measured by the emulator since it's all external. How could you possibly compensate for that? Perhaps some kind of "tone matching" circuit?
 
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