Software/Native Plugin Capability

FWIW I don't want my audio interface to be tied to a plugin. If a hardware dongle is required I would prefer it to be iLok because I'm already using it for other stuff.
 
Maybe Fractal are happy with their 25% increase YOY sales.

If you are totally ITB then you are always limited by DSP by what your computer can handle. From the NAM Facebook there seems to be a lot of people that struggle with multiple instances and they have really power processers.

I upgraded my laptop this year and could go down this route but I personally like separating out the engineering/recording and mixing process.

Just my opinion of course.
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Im sure they are happy with it, and they aren't obligated to go further with it if they don't want to. But I'd imagine 25% increase in sales would be microscopic compared to sales if they released a software product (done right). The argument with DSP makes sense, but I could also argue that my FM-3 hits a brickwall WAY before my computer does. There are so many workarounds to help with DSP limits with plugins - you only REALLY need one instance active at a time, and the others can be freezing. Freezing tracks is still faster than reamping should a user need to resort to that. For anyone using really old computers, they are still welcome to use the HW, one doesn't need to replace the other.

The point is that it would be better if users had the choice, rather than only having one way of working (which may be a perfectly fine way to work for some people, and totally impractical for others).

One aspect of the plugin thing is that you are then also at the mercy of how good someone's audio interface is. There's tons of people with some budget tier audio interface. Those are not going to have Axe-Fx 3 level I/O, converters etc. Then you get into issues with getting the right input/output levels etc that you just don't need to deal with on a hardware modeler.

Maybe the better approach would be for Fractal to offer their own audio interface specifically designed and tuned to be lighting fast latency for the Axe-Fx plugin and offer enough I/O for most people. Then instead of having the DSP in a hardware box, you do all the processing on the computer, potentially leveraging the GPU for DSP as well.

This could also solve some licensing issues as you could tie the Fractal software plugin into the hardware. While someone could bypass this, I'd say the people who would pirate an Axe-Fx would not buy one in the first place. With Fractal's rapid pace for updates, crackers keeping up with it would also be a problem for the pirates.
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Its something all plugins have to deal with, but I dont think it needs to be a dealbreaker. I don't use the built in inputs of my FM-3 and determining the correct input level to send to the device wasn't exactly straightforward (certainly not as much as it could be). I think if the input level issue is handled properly (good documentation, simple and clear instructions in the software) it doesn't need to be an issue. It could literally be "choose your interface from this list and set your gain to 0".

I think the whole appeal of a plugin version would be that people with a budget interface can get into the Fractal ecosystem. If they want the truest experience, they might prefer to but the HW and switch that part of their brain off. Budget interfaces are pretty solid these days, I personally use high end stuff but I wouldn't be too precious about using lower end consumer gear.

As you say, Fractal offering their own simple interface/dongle would get around piracy pretty easily. Even if I didn't use it as a DI, I'd happily have it plugged into a USB port somewhere out of the way. It would take up much less room than the FM-3 that sits on my desk (where I've never even pressed most of the buttons on the actual unit). I would prefer iLok too, but if piracy is what makes Fractal hesitant to do this, then I'd settle for their own approach.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
Its something all plugins have to deal with, but I dont think it needs to be a dealbreaker. I don't use the built in inputs of my FM-3 and determining the correct input level to send to the device wasn't exactly straightforward (certainly not as much as it could be). I think if the input level issue is handled properly (good documentation, simple and clear instructions in the software) it doesn't need to be an issue. It could literally be "choose your interface from this list and set your gain to 0".

I think the whole appeal of a plugin version would be that people with a budget interface can get into the Fractal ecosystem. If they want the truest experience, they might prefer to but the HW and switch that part of their brain off. Budget interfaces are pretty solid these days, I personally use high end stuff but I wouldn't be too precious about using lower end consumer gear.
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I use a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen still simply because I've had a really hard time finding a better replacement for it. Few interfaces have the same set of I/O (incl. MIDI and SPDIF I/O) until you get to the rack stuff which tends to be pricy and way more than I need. But I'd definitely like a better Hi-Z input, better headphone amp etc than the Focusrite has.

Just comparing using e.g amp sim plugins with my Axe-Fx 3 as an audio interface vs using the Focusrite, there's definitely a difference and the Axe ends up giving me better sounds. I just wish it wasn't so impractical as an actual audio interface since all its USB-related controls are buried deep and there's of course no mic pres and so on.

That's why to me the idea of Fractal's own audio interface is appealing, but I get offering it also as just software but with the caveat that your experience might vary.

MirrorProfiles said:
As you say, Fractal offering their own simple interface/dongle would get around piracy pretty easily. Even if I didn't use it as a DI, I'd happily have it plugged into a USB port somewhere out of the way. It would take up much less room than the FM-3 that sits on my desk (where I've never even pressed most of the buttons on the actual unit). I would prefer iLok too, but if piracy is what makes Fractal hesitant to do this, then I'd settle for their own approach.
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Yeah iLok is one of the more common solutions, but I don't know if costs are involved for using the tech as the developer. I was merely thinking that if they wanted to make an audio interface they could also tie the licensing to it.
 
laxu said:
I use a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen still simply because I've had a really hard time finding a better replacement for it. Few interfaces have the same set of I/O (incl. MIDI and SPDIF I/O) until you get to the rack stuff which tends to be pricy and way more than I need. But I'd definitely like a better Hi-Z input, better headphone amp etc than the Focusrite has.

Just comparing using e.g amp sim plugins with my Axe-Fx 3 as an audio interface vs using the Focusrite, there's definitely a difference and the Axe ends up giving me better sounds. I just wish it wasn't so impractical as an actual audio interface since all its USB-related controls are buried deep and there's of course no mic pres and so on.

That's why to me the idea of Fractal's own audio interface is appealing, but I get offering it also as just software but with the caveat that your experience might vary.


Yeah iLok is one of the more common solutions, but I don't know if costs are involved for using the tech as the developer. I was merely thinking that if they wanted to make an audio interface they could also tie the licensing to it.
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It’s definitely a matter of taste regarding inputs - I personally like using the Avalon U5 into RME ADI-2 PRO FS BE as my input for any guitar or bass and for use with any gear. It’s more flexible for routing (both in the analog and digital realm), it integrates nicely with other gear etc. It’s actually something favourable to me with plugins, in that I’m free to spec my own input chain, but I understand that for others they’d rather not have to think or worry about that.

There are absolutely sonic differences between different DI’s, but assuming they are flat frequency wise, clean distortion wise, the same impedance and (importantly) the same level, they’re pretty small and more of a matter of opinion/context rather than one being better than the other. Most sonic differences from switching DI’s are either because the impedance is different, or the resultant level has changed and they’re quite easy to take care of.

ilok is my preferred choice because I can authorize 90% of my entire plugin library in one go. When different manufacturers use their own system, it usually involves going through emails to see if I need a licence key, some login details, a code, or something else. On their own they’re all fine but when you have many with different systems it gets annoying.

ilok isn’t totally secure and they do charge a fair bit to the developer (they are providing a service after all). I know some developers get fed up of paying and switch to their own licensing, which invariably gets hacked almost instantly. At that point it’s playing cat and mouse with hackers rather than focussing on the SW.

Maybe I’m naive, but I’d imagine anyone who was ready to spend the money on a Fractal unit would still prefer to have the regular updates, support, stability etc. Fractal could tie having an active licence to some kind of online service that offers presets/IR’s/sharing etc. There’s so much potential for cool shit they could offer.
 
I'm just happy my FM3 plays consistent audio instead of my NAM plugins which cut out for a half a second every minute or so. No, not the trial usage cutout, these are paid and licensed ones.
 
IronSean said:
I'm just happy my FM3 plays consistent audio instead of my NAM plugins which cut out for a half a second every minute or so. No, not the trial usage cutout, these are paid and licensed ones.
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tbf, NAM is an open source and free community driven project.There is no trial modes or DRM. If you are having dropouts, its probably down to user error or an underpowered computer. I'm not really sure its even worth comparing because an FM-3 and NAM are totally different things.

Regardless, paid plugins have more of an obligation and commitment to support/updates etc. If plugins don't run well on your system, you can use whatever other methods you like. A plugin doesnt make the HW obsolete, it just offers another way to work. Open source projects don't owe anyone anything, so you cant really expect a seamless experience.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
Freezing tracks is still faster than reamping should a user need to resort to that. For anyone using really old computers, they are still welcome to use the HW, one doesn't need to replace the other.
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I would be happy if reamping/recording with the FM3 USB actually worked correctly without having to resort to a manual offset. I bring it up every so often only to be told there has been no progress with it.
 
TG3K said:
That's the same argument that was used when Napster came along. We all know how well that worked out for the record industry.
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another way of looking at that is that the music industry sat still clinging onto old technology when consumers wanted something new that technology could provide.

As soon as iTunes, ipods, spotify etc took hold, most people just decided to pay. It’s more convenient, the quality of the experience is much better. The main issue now is the labels negotiated TERRIBLE deals with the streaming services for artists, but it could be argued that’s because the industry was too slow to act when it had the chance and now it’s a game of catch up. It should have been the record labels making the streaming services, not tech companies doing it. It was inevitable that music would be delivered digitally, it was the failure to act quickly enough that was the problem.

But again, I’m not sure it’s a good analogy because plugins have existed for decades. Lexicon still sell PCM92’s for like $4000 and also offer a plugin, god knows what Eventide charge for an H9000, Line 6 and Strymon make 1:1 ports of their flagship HW.
 
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MirrorProfiles said:
tbf, NAM is an open source and free community driven project.There is no trial modes or DRM. If you are having dropouts, its probably down to user error or an underpowered computer. I'm not really sure its even worth comparing because an FM-3 and NAM are totally different things.

Regardless, paid plugins have more of an obligation and commitment to support/updates etc. If plugins don't run well on your system, you can use whatever other methods you like. A plugin doesnt make the HW obsolete, it just offers another way to work. Open source projects don't owe anyone anything, so you cant really expect a seamless experience.
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Sorry, I confused my acronyms. I was talking about NeuralDSP cutting out randomly every couple minutes for fractions of a second.
 
IronSean said:
Sorry, I confused my acronyms. I was talking about NeuralDSP cutting out randomly every couple minutes for fractions of a second.
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Their copy protection is just iLok, it either works 100% or it’s 0%. Are you sure you aren’t thinking of Bogren Digital or someone else?

jin1995x said:
Amp sim plugins are overrated af.
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Fractal running amp sims on dedicated HW would be no different to the same amp sims running on a CPU. It wouldn’t suck if I could reamp without needing to run every single DI through it one at a time every time I want to adjust something, or have my settings saved to a DAW project. It would also make combining FX from other plugins much more seamless.

If you think that sucks, that’s fine, but not everyone wants the same experience as you. Having a massive piece of HW sat on my desk that I never touch because I’m only using a software editor and seperate DI box for seems kind of dumb.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
It wouldn’t suck if I could reamp without needing to run every single DI through it one at a time every time I want to adjust something,
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Refer to the vid i posted earlier in this thread.

You can tweak on the go with axe edit, as the di plays just like a plugin infact switch through more amps quicker than with plugins, and then have to run it for reamp only once. instead of every single time you want to adjust something by using axe through an insert plugin.


Idk but the latency and the feel of playing something to me seems way quicker on the axe than on a plugin . Dedicated DSP is way better compared to using computer cpu and you dont hit the brick wall on axe that soon. If it wasn't the case artists who love plugins would not want to use a modeller or a processor when playing live because at the end of the day they are more reliable.

I still dont deny the convenience of plugins and would really love a fractal axe plugin myself.
 
IronSean said:
What does this have to do with copy protection?

I'm talking about audio cutting out randomly. But not because of trail or lack of license.
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Oh right, well I'm sure their support can help diagnose your issue and hopefully it gets fixed.
jin1995x said:
You can tweak on the go with axe edit, as the di plays just like a plugin infact switch through more amps quicker than with plugins, and then have to run it for reamp only once. instead of every single time you want to adjust something by using axe through an insert plugin.
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Yep, you can tweak while its playing, but you have to record each DI through with the new settings. With a plugin, its done instantly. But more importantly - if you have (say) 20 different tones across a whole song, all the settings are saved within the session. I don't need to save individual presets in the modeller, and then note down which track each setting was used on. Imagine someone who's working on a few albums at a time, and each one could have lots of tracks on. Its just much nicer to have all that information stored within a DAW project, with the ability to adjust tones and not have to reamp each one through. This is a vast benefit of digital over using real amps.

jin1995x said:
Idk but the latency and the feel of playing something to me seems way quicker on the axe than on a plugin . Dedicated DSP is way better compared to using computer cpu and you dont hit the brick wall on axe that soon. If it wasn't the case artists who love plugins would not want to use a modeller or a processor when playing live because at the end of the day they are more reliable.
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agreed largely, although there are situations where you may prefer to avoid roundtrips through different digital gear. Ultimately, if your computer can handle it and/or you don't mind the feel of latency (which hasn't been an issue for me in like 15+ years) then you can use a plugin. If a HW makes more sense to use, then you have the option of doing that. I'm not saying one should totally replace the other - I'm actually saying the total opposite. Some situations require certain workflows - I'm not playing live or touring, so why would I want to pay extra for those features, while having a worse experience for the things I do want to use it for? This is why IMO choice would benefit customers and offer something that isnt currently catered for.
 
GlennO said:
Somebody's not paying attention to what's available to solve this problem :).
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Does that mean there is an easy way to adjust settings for mutliple recorded tracks without having to reamp each of them one by one and manually recall each preset for each associated track?
 
Cool, yeah I wasn't aware of this and while its great that it exists (downloading immediately), its still not as fast or slick as just using a plugin.
 
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