Show offs! Wasting our time.

levipeto said:
I guess some ppl find it fun to make a preset FOR themself, others dont.
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Well yeah. I don't make presets for others. I actually make them for myself. Not that I might not be willing to share, but no one would be interested anyway. Mine are so me and there's nothing special. I'm one of those guys that thinks playing is in the hands and that's all that REALLY matters.
 
Sit back and think about this for a second:
What if the Axe couldn't share presets? If all you could do was tweak your own presets from zero?
How many units less/more would Fractal sell? Can anyone imagine how many beginners would find the Axe overwhelming to tweak and instead turn to another alternative? Many would feel that the Axe isn't very good sounding because of the incapability to tweak nice tones...
There is a reason Fractal, including every one else in this business have preset sharing included. You guys who won't share are biting your own tail if you think the Axe Fx II would even exist without this...

IMHO, of course...
 
levipeto said:
Make sense. You guys are right. I am not going to share presets anymore either.
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Sorry levipeto but your attitude is very childish. First your point was that patches and presets should be free and suddenly you seem to give concrete value to your own patches and presets. That's an oxymoron. :)
 
I'm a big proponent of sharing patches. I actually posted something similar a couple of months ago.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/49759-my-hope-6-0-a.html

It really is a learning experience to see how others are setting up their patches, dialing in tones, etc. Call me lazy if you want. But sometimes there's more to it that that. With a full time job, a wife, a 3 year old, a father-in-law who suffered a stroke, it's sometimes difficult to find the time to even just play let alone tweak.

And I'll debate the excuse that someone else's preset will only sound good on their system, with their guitar, in their environment. I've downloaded quite a few patches that were plug n play and sounded great with my setup with little to no tweaking involved (pretty much every patch posted by Mark Day and Yek, for example). And I know that's not always the case, but presets also provide a good starting point to shape the tone into something more useable for YOU.

There is a ton of sharing going on on the Kemper board. Different technology, yes...but I really don't understand how sharing profiles (aka presets) works in that case but not so much here.
 
All lot of folks like to think of the Axe Fx as a big gigantic guitar frigging toy where you can get sounds like all of your heroes. And that is great. It's really, really cool and you can share patches like it's Christmas. But not all of us think of it like that. And that should be really, really cool too.
 
ztevie said:
Sit back and think about this for a second:
What if the Axe couldn't share presets? If all you could do was tweak your own presets from zero?
How many units less/more would Fractal sell? Can anyone imagine how many beginners would find the Axe overwhelming to tweak and instead turn to another alternative? Many would feel that the Axe isn't very good sounding because of the incapability to tweak nice tones...
There is a reason Fractal, including every one else in this business have preset sharing included. You guys who won't share are biting your own tail if you think the Axe Fx II would even exist without this...

IMHO, of course...
Click to expand...

I wonder actually if something like this could be a reason for many folk in the 90's that tried multi-fx units for a while, and after some time ditched them and went back to an amp and stomps.. and back then there were no PC editors ether.. it was all front panel tweaking...
some of my pals did this for sure... got tired of navigating menus.. and / or lacked the will to sit down with the manual and figure it out...
and the thing with stomps is that everything is laid out in front of you, easy to see..

multi-fx though require a little more thought and a mental image of how you want things to work...
even with the editors and stuff.. some folk still find the transition from stomps to multi-fx difficult..
and even when you're experienced with multi-fx.. you still have to go through the pain of learning a new one.. how to talk to it.. how it sounds..
so being able to trade presets is seriously cool... there's nothing quite like being able to learn by example..
 
ztevie said:
Sit back and think about this for a second:
What if the Axe couldn't share presets? If all you could do was tweak your own presets from zero?
How many units less/more would Fractal sell? Can anyone imagine how many beginners would find the Axe overwhelming to tweak and instead turn to another alternative? Many would feel that the Axe isn't very good sounding because of the incapability to tweak nice tones...
There is a reason Fractal, including every one else in this business have preset sharing included. You guys who won't share are biting your own tail if you think the Axe Fx II would even exist without this...

IMHO, of course...
Click to expand...

your point is well taken. Specifically, extended to its logical extreme - that if owners/forum members did NOT share their "stuff" on the forum - then of course FAS and their beta testers would most likely fill in the void by posting up and/or making available many of their own presets, especially if FAS feels that significant market share is impacted by the sharing of quality/creative presets, and it would be up to FAS (as opposed to their user base) to present their products in the best light possible.

Sharing presets/tone matches should be encouraged and applauded for those who are comfortable doing so...and for those who don't wish to share, for whatever reason, I see no benefit in "demonizing" them. There is a big difference in "management style" between encouragement/praise compared to mandate/punish. One appeals to the charitable and giving nature of the individual, while the other is harsh, dictatorial and fascistic. I personally am thankful that FAS generally chooses the former approach than the latter, except in certain extreme circumstances.

If preset sharing really means a lot to you, lead by example and encourage others to do so. I am already satisfied with the evidence that this is a very, VERY generous forum.

JMHO
 
jimfist said:
Sharing presets/tone matches should be encouraged and applauded for those who are comfortable doing so
I am already satisfied with the evidence that this is a very, VERY generous forum.

JMHO
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Very well stated. There certainly is value in being able to look at a preset and seeing the architecture involved. It's been a great help to me personally. But I see no reason to demand anything from this forum other than respect for each other. We're musicians!
 
IMO, You can't worry about other people and whether they share or not.
The ones that will, will; the ones that won't won't.
'Tis the way of things. Not really for me to judge.

I just try to surround myself with the people I want to be more like and hope some of it rubs off :)
In the end, I am responsible for my own learning.
 
javajunkie said:
IMO, You can't worry about other people and whether they share or not.
The ones that will, will; the ones that won't won't.
'Tis the way of things. Not really for me to judge.

I just try to surround myself with the people I want to be more like and hope some of it rubs off :)
In the end, I am responsible for my own learning.
Click to expand...

I've dropped in on this thread several times but could never seem to put a reply into the right words. Well, there it is. +1+1+1+1 Java, very well said.
 
clarky said:
I wonder actually if something like this could be a reason for many folk in the 90's that tried multi-fx units for a while, and after some time ditched them and went back to an amp and stomps.. and back then there were no PC editors ether.. it was all front panel tweaking...
some of my pals did this for sure... got tired of navigating menus.. and / or lacked the will to sit down with the manual and figure it out...
and the thing with stomps is that everything is laid out in front of you, easy to see..

multi-fx though require a little more thought and a mental image of how you want things to work...
even with the editors and stuff.. some folk still find the transition from stomps to multi-fx difficult..
and even when you're experienced with multi-fx.. you still have to go through the pain of learning a new one.. how to talk to it.. how it sounds..
so being able to trade presets is seriously cool... there's nothing quite like being able to learn by example..
Click to expand...

I think you're right...

I suspect many Axe buyers don't have a clue where to start tweaking. Put in an amp and cab block, yes, but after that? There are so many options available so it's easy to get lost in all the parameters...
I think most people who buys the Axe have been listening to hundreds of clips available before they decide to buy. When they hear these awesome tones, and also find that it's possible to download and easily try out these tones on their own gear, it's probably a dealbreaker. Let's face it, you hear a lot of great tones from Pods, Eleven Rack and not to mention Kemper, so the competition is fierce out there. The Axe's advantage, IMO, is that many clips available are so great, and that they have a reputation of continuosly developing the product. New features and improved tones in a never ending stream.
You have a huge library of shared patches for the Pods, altugh you might question overall quality, but quite a few jems are in there. The Kemper community seems to share as if their life depended on it. Even the Eleven Rack, which might be the least sold right now have a very big library of shared patches at elevenrackpresets.com...

I'd hate to see the Axe get a reputation of being a community where people are cranky professionals who won't let beginners in on the good stuff. Where beginners asking for presets get to hear they're lazy and need to learn by themselves, cause "that's what we did, you leeching tone thief!".
If we downgrade beginners and potential buyers in this way, we're heading down a dangerous road with possible falling sale numbers. It's bad for Fractal, and if it's bad for Fractal it's bad for us users.
Axe is an extraordinary product and the great team that keeps developing it's features and tones are outstanding. Such dedication to develop an already outstanding product must be unheard of...?
But we shouldn't take for granted that this will continue forever if sales go down, it cost money to keep the Axe a top of the line device...

I don't think people will steal your tones and make loads of money on them, or whatever you worry about. I can take myself as an example. I've downloaded shared presets, and have been diving into them, tweaking here and there, I have saved three(3) presets to my favorite folder, but all of them are adjusted for my gear and my taste. I've learned more about how the Axe work in 5 days than I thought possible when first looking at the stuff inside...
Step by step I'm getting to the point where I might actually be able to create an awesome tone from scratch, when that happens I would be extatic even if only one fellow Axeman would ask me to share it...
Kind of a recognition of skill, I guess...
 
and to add to this.... that Axe has an extra angle that most other fx-units don't..
it sounds and behave very much like a real amp...
sounds simple don't it... lol..

try thinking about it this way...
the 2120 has a valve preamp.. there are only a few 'extras'.. warm clean, bright clean, dirty tube and saturated tube...
that's it.. it don't emulate / model anything... it is what it is... everything from there on is eq and other fx..
ok.. such little choice.. you'd think "how can this sound great".. but it does.. what it does, it does very well..
so you fiddle around until it's doing what you want it to...

the Axe on the other hand has a whole lot in it.. amps, cabs, mics and more parms to tweak than most folk have ever heard of...
and on top of that... it behaves pretty closely like the real thing...
I know that it's easy to jack into a mark V and make it sound nasty... in fact you can jack into any amp and make it sound bad...
but the trick is knowing the amp.. knowing where the sweet spots are...
and what amps work with what cabs.. and so on...
how many of us have actually owned more than 10 amps and have deep knowledge and experience with them??
not me that's for sure...
so I certainly fall into that group of folk that know exactly how to make an amp sound bad... lol..

so for folk making the leap for the first time to multi-fx, with the Axe they're also making the leap into a whole warehouse full of amps and cabs that can be mixed and matched at will...
so it's hardly surprising that many.. myself included... have discovered a whole plethora of crap sounding configs..
what I quickly realised is that it's not the Axe sounding bad.. it's the choices made..
some things I learned by example [Mark Day's preset along with some nice advice from long term Axe owners]..
and a huge amount of systematic experimenting and listening of my own...
finally after about 2 months I think I'm getting closer to where I want to be...
over the next 6 months I think I'll start finding the details.. but I'm not in a rush...
you tweak a little.. you listen and feel it.. and learn from it...

it does help though when you have great working examples to examine so you can see for yourself what settings have been made and try to figure out why..
the Axe's greatest strength is it's configurable vastness
and this is also it's greatness noob-trap
 
Ugh, this again – this topic brings out the worst in the forum, as was the case in a “nooly” recording thread a while back. Some out of order abuse was hurled in that thread, hope we don’t ever see a repeat of it.
To me, this is a complete non issue – if anyone shares their patches -great!, if they decline -so the hell what?! Move on, no need for drama, imo. Always plenty of other good patches to download.
If there is a need for changes to forum rules maybe it’s worth clarifying what is required to post in each section; because at the moment it looks like some members are making up their own rules about what is expected in each section, and getting quite abusive when they don’t get what they expect / feel entitled to.
No offence, just the 2 cents.
 
hideous said:
Ugh, this again – this topic brings out the worst in the forum, as was the case in a “nooly” recording thread a while back. Some out of order abuse was hurled in that thread, hope we don’t ever see a repeat of it.
To me, this is a complete non issue – if anyone shares their patches -great!, if they decline -so the hell what?! Move on, no need for drama, imo. Always plenty of other good patches to download.
If there is a need for changes to forum rules maybe it’s worth clarifying what is required to post in each section; because at the moment it looks like some members are making up their own rules about what is expected in each section, and getting quite abusive when they don’t get what they expect / feel entitled to.
No offence, just the 2 cents.
Click to expand...
+1
 
Someone posted a great idea and I expanded on it... I really like the idea as follows:

Recordings WITHOUT patches under should go under RECORDINGS
Recordings WITH patches under PRESET EXCHANGE
And Tone Match under TONE MATCH with patches, Otherwise put it under RECORDINGS

Anyone agree? Maybe we can put an end to all of this with some understanding? :)
 
No one is entitled to a patch, ir, or anything else, AND no one is obligated to share the aforementioned. I get all sides of this argument/topic, but its all just pissing in the wind. Nothing good will come of anyone getting mad. And yes, there should be more posting etiquette. We have to help our noobs so that they become contributors to this, OUR COMMUNITY, and not leechers of it. There's a lot of ppl who wont help themselves and WE have to encourage them to find out the info they need on their own. Help, but don't hold any hands. Show them how to help themselves is all you can do for ANYONE, for ANYTHING...EVER.
I have only found THREE patches that work for my system. 3!!!!! Two were made by Smilefan (he no longer post here due to a job he received from a competitor). Two of which were a semi-request and the other is from Gamedojo(which came with a custom IR he made from a JBL E130). Out side of that, I find most if not all patches I download are not going to work with the guitars that I have and my particular FRFR system. I do like to look at peoples patches to see HOW they got there, but if they do not post the patch, it doesn't bother me.

"When I fall down, I don't cry."
-my 3 year old cousin
 
The reason this bothers people so much is because the procedure to post and load patches is simple to do... and, some people just can't understand why anyone wouldn't just do something that is literally a matter of a few mouse clicks away. It's not so much want or need of someone's patch... but rather, the lure of the *CLICK*.

The bulk of how we interface with the computer (and by default, the bulk of what is therefore being presented on the computer), is by point-and-click. Because the small action of clicking a mouse button can (and often does) lead to large payoffs regarding the results of such clicking (access to unlimited information, video, games, shopping, killer guitar patches, etc), an 'action-reward' pattern becomes imbedded in how we interact with and on the internet. This behavior when repeated becomes addicting... going so far as to stimulate the same dopamine response cycle that occurs as a result of more serious addictions.

The phenomenon has been well studied.

Some of us can't get enough of the 'one click promise' of instant gratification.
 
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