Should I have this guitar pleked or leveled?

Rex said:
Now I’m really confused. When I think of a fretting jig, I think of something to help me cut clean fret slots.

The tensioning jig we use pushes up on the end of the headstock and pulls down just behind the nut. Once it’s set, and backing rods are placed under the neck, it produces a neck with smooth, predictable relief every time.
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You are missing the point. I am talking about correcting where a-bouts the relief occurs under string pull. If a neck flexes too high up no amount of levelling it in your jig is going to change that because the jig doesn't replicate the effect of string pull with any accuracy.
 
scottp said:
YES! This way, in theory with big bends you will not have any fretting out, quieting of the notes.
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I used to build in "fall away" in my refrets in the 2000s. Then I met Joe Glaser. After listening to Joe Glaser, looking at several Plek scans during the 2010s, I can confirm that "fall away" is a myth we were sold.
 
Andy Eagle said:
You are missing the point. I am talking about correcting where a-bouts the relief occurs under string pull. If a neck flexes too high up no amount of levelling it in your jig is going to change that because the jig doesn't replicate the effect of string pull with any accuracy.
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Understood. I guess I haven’t encountered that before. Everything I’ve ever had on my bench flexes under load in a uniform way, distributed across the neck, with the maximum relief occurring in the middle of the portion that’s affected by the truss rod, which is almost always at or near the 7th fret. Even my Gretsch New Yorker and Tamura classical — with no truss rod at all — behave this way. I would think that flexing at a significantly different place is a fundamental flaw in the neck that could cause problems in any case. Even the headstock-torsioning method is still subject to where the neck naturally wants to flex.
 
Rex said:
Understood. I guess I haven’t encountered that before. Everything I’ve ever had on my bench flexes under load in a uniform way, distributed across the neck, with the maximum relief occurring in the middle of the portion that’s affected by the truss rod, which is almost always at or near the 7th fret. Even my Gretsch New Yorker and Tamura classical — with no truss rod at all — behave this way. I would think that flexing at a significantly different place is a fundamental flaw in the neck that could cause problems in any case. Even the headstock-torsioning method is still subject to where the neck naturally wants to flex.
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Yes but with the tolerances you need it isn't better than no jig IME.
 
Andy Eagle said:
I've told you the process and I don't doubt it plays fine but it would be interesting to put a straight edge on it to see if the fret tops follow the fingerboard because they won't.
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This.

It’s fine to plane the fingerboard with fallaway built in. But after you install the frets, it’s very rare that you don’t have to level them, and that means putting in the fallaway all over again.
 
I have scanned many leveling/fretting jobs that are VERY good.

I’ve been surprised by nationally recognized individuals that have performed poorly on priceless instruments.

I’ve also been surprised by a humble “average Joe” that consistently outperforms the “champion” techs.

98% of necks are less than ideal in some way.
I would be skeptical if someone said the fingerboard precisely matched the fret height. This is extremely difficult if not impossible to do by hand. It is not the sole criteria for a great playing instrument and often would often be less than ideal due to the serious inconsistencies in most guitar necks.

Personally, if I’m substantially invested in an instrument at the very least I’m going to scan the guitar- just to see if there is anything I need to be concerned with or see if someone passed off problem guitar.

Bottom line- as long as your instrument is “unharmed” and plays the way you like- it counts as a win.
 
goodwill559 said:
This is one of the things I like most about the PLEK process - it can mitigate what a truss rod adjustment can't
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The point I was making and the fact that 70+% of guitar necks don't have their relief behaving in the most optimum way.This seems to be true whatever the price. Carbon neck reinforcement helps enormously to make necks uniformly stiff and flex predictably but this is only in a few instruments.
 
skunc said:
I used to build in "fall away" in my refrets in the 2000s. Then I met Joe Glaser. After listening to Joe Glaser, looking at several Plek scans during the 2010s, I can confirm that "fall away" is a myth we were sold.
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@skunc Can you tell me why you believe that "fall away" is a myth we were sold?
 
scottp said:
@skunc Can you tell me why you believe that "fall away" is a myth we were sold?
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If you have a plek you don't need fall away because you can measure the actual next fret clearance and cut the exact relief needed. Fall away is way of over compensating for something you can't meaningfully read. Often the guitars that benefit from it would be perfect on a fret rocker but still have an annoying propensity to buzz easily. This would be the time to get a plek job but the "by hand" solution would be fall away. Other application are: Acoustics were the fingerboard just sits on the top so effectively disconnected from the neck itself . USA Ovation is an extreme version and has a very obvious fall away . Taylor have got around this with there bolt on neck that continues to the end. Cheap set necks often have a noticeable fall away where the neck joins the body to again over compensate for potential issues.
 
The basic concept is the trajectory of the average string oscillation. Most players create a sine wave when the strings are plucked. The end points of the string usually have the smallest trajectory while the middle of the string oscillates further.
 
skunc said:
The basic concept is the trajectory of the average string oscillation. Most players create a sine wave when the strings are plucked. The end points of the string usually have the smallest trajectory while the middle of the string oscillates further.
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And the centre or deepest part of the oscillation is different for every fret. Now add wood that doesn't flex exactly where you want it too. The geometry of a cone acting against a cylinder (most of the time) . Different string move by different amounts and you have the START of the issue.
 
Andy Eagle said:
How did you measure that exactly.
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The depth rod on a digital caliper.
I was also impressed that the frets on my Anderson were all slightly shorter as you measure up the neck.
My Suhr has fallaway cut into the frets above the 15th fret.
My PRS frets are all the same height to within .01mm
 
We are truly spoiled by technology. The amount of in-depth analysis for each piece of the instrument is overwhelming. The amount of information you can learn on a daily basis about an instrument is seemingly never ending. It is no surprise to find so many like-minded people on the Fractal forum!
Hopefully we can still set all this aside and remember to make some great music!
 
Many times I play my electric guitars acoustically. When I'm soloing above the 12th fret, the notes would sound dead or die out quickly.
If I would play on the last fret there was a noticeable difference in the length of the note decay. The last fretted note rang out cleaner and longer.
In my experience, It made quite a difference having a fall away added to my guitars. I will continue doing this in the future.
 
rcm78 said:
The depth rod on a digital caliper.
I was also impressed that the frets on my Anderson were all slightly shorter as you measure up the neck.
My Suhr has fallaway cut into the frets above the 15th fret.
My PRS frets are all the same height to within .01mm
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Why where you impressed that Anderson cut the frets to a different angle but level, it doesn't do anything?
Having the frets deviate from the fingerboard by a few 1/1000's is fine because the playing surface is what matters.
How much fall away did your tech cut in to the wood?
 
Andy Eagle said:
Why where you impressed that Anderson cut the frets to a different angle but level, it doesn't do anything?
Having the frets deviate from the fingerboard by a few 1/1000's is fine because the playing surface is what matters.
How much fall away did your tech cut in to the wood?
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I think I'm done being interrogated...
 
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