Setting levels....ugg again!

Yes, Rex put it down in words much better than I did last night, and the solution he offers will work for sure. It was getting too late ... :)

Brokenvail is also right saying that the "level" value really doesn't matter. There are some very loud amp models which require low level values.
Low Amp Level doesn't affect tone normally.

However, if you need to go to -25, something else is boosting the overall level in the digital domain for sure. I'd be happy to take a look at the preset for you.
 
I will try this and report back. Problem is I gig a lot and most of time I can't get to my unit fast or frequently enough as it is at rehearsal studio. If I can download the preset I will. But it may take a little time. Thank you.
 
Do what you can, when you can. The work you do on this will pay for itself over and over, every time you don't have to level your presets again.
 
Just a thought from an Axe Noob-Clown trying to keep the levels straight in his head... Sorry for bringing this topic back up again so soon.

Could someone create two presets; one clean and one distorted that has the following blocks: Amp, Cab, Delay in series and parallel, reverb in series and parallel and a Chorus in front and in back of the amp/cab combo? All of the delay, reverb and chorus blocks would be bypassed. Set the levels correctly for each block. Name the two presets "Clean Volume Settings" and "Distorted Volume Settings". Match both presets so that their outputs are leveled.

Using these two presets would allow us to see how you Pro'sters are setting up this wonderful machine. Sorry in advance if this can't be done accurately because of: FRFR versus backline versus mic/no mic versus stereo versus yada yada yada...

Would this help everyone from getting asked the same question all of the time?

It is so easy for you guys to understand this stuff. Not us Ass, ahhh, Axe Noob-Clowns!
 
HwyStar said:
Could someone create two presets; one clean and one distorted that has the following blocks: Amp, Cab, Delay in series and parallel, reverb in series and parallel and a Chorus in front and in back of the amp/cab combo? All of the delay, reverb and chorus blocks would be bypassed. Set the levels correctly for each block. Name the two presets "Clean Volume Settings" and "Distorted Volume Settings". Match both presets so that their outputs are leveled.
Click to expand...
That's a great idea, but there's one big catch to it: if someone creates a pair of leveled presets, people are going to think that those are the settings you're supposed to use to level your presets. But preset leveling isn't a one-size-fits-all proposition.

For instance, if you level a clean and distorted preset pair for low-volume playback, your clean tone will dominate at high volume, and you'll have to change the settings. And patches that are leveled for one mix might not be leveled in a different mix. And sometimes you want the distorted patch to be louder than the clean patch. Even something as simple as an EQ change can change the leveling of the patches.

I totally get the idea behind your request, but it's like asking someone a hundred miles away to tell you how far you should turn the steering wheel when you make a left turn. It has to be your eyes on the intersection and your hands on the wheel before you can answer that.

Likewise, it has to be your ears on the music and your hands on the knob when you level your patches. Follow the instructions posted above. Do it twice, and you'll totally get it.

Leveling presets on the Axe takes the same skill set as leveling clean and distorted sounds on a traditional tube rig. In fact, the job is a lot simpler on the Axe-Fx, because there's only one parameter to worry about.
 
I totally understand what you are saying Rex and Thanks for pointing that out to me.

I was going from the angle of "New users and inexperienced users" don't understand why presets change volumes when you change a block from serial to parallel, or in Axe edit there seems to be three levels in the main amp block and three levels in the cab block and ..., etc.

Visualize a new user coming from an amp that has fifteen knobs on the front of his amp and each is labeled in such a way that it makes sense. Channel 1, channel 2, channel 3. The Axe knobs make the best sense it can make considering we are dealing with one hundred amps with many different nomenclatures being used to describe each amps knobs and buttons. But we have all those other knobs to contend with and the new user starts questioning himself if he is adjusting the right knob in the right place for the right reason.

New users need a good starting point for both styles of amps (clean and distorted) that we can come back to to double check ourselves with. I am not looking for the end all do all leveling presets tool, just two basic guideline presets to follow.

How about I create the two presets and "we" come up with a solution to make this potentially easier for us to understand? I would also like to document these two presets as I learn more from you guys how to set the levels. I know I sure do not understand where a person is supposed to give enough headroom to a preset by lowering what knob by what percent in what block to keep from clipping the outputs.

I hope I don't sound negative, I just really want to understand this great sounding box! I apologize in advance if I am coming across as negative. Thanks for reading this long winded post. Thanks for your reply Rex!
 
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No worries. You aren't coming across as negative at all. I totally get where you're coming from. The truth is, everybody here came from that same place at one time or another, whether with the Axe or with a previous piece of equipment—whether we admit it or not. :)

The thing is, there are a lot of questions behind your simple question of "How do I level everything?" Which knobs do what? What does series vs. parallel do to your levels? What happens to your level when you do this or that? If I try to answer all those questions at once, I'll just add to your confusion.

So I'll accept your challenge. :) You make two presets: one clean and one distorted. Only you don't get to make the complex presets we were talking about. No series/parallel this or that, no effects, no nothing. Just an amp and a cab for now, set to sound pleasing to you. Build those presets, and take your best stab at leveling them. Then we'll play.


Hints:

  • Set your levels with the Amp block's LEVEL parameter.
  • The LEVEL parameter reads out in dB, so if you're just below clipping, you can turn it down by 10, and you'll be 10 dB below clipping.
  • There's a little red light that tells you when you're clipping.


Have at it! :)
 
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Otah! I will get to work creating the two presets. I will use your hints as well. As I go through this process I will document what steps I need to take to make this successful with Axe Edit screen prints. Later on I will do screen shots of the Axe LCD screen. I will do my best at documenting each level, of each block as we work through this so others can follow suit. Thanks for your help Rex! Game On.
 
So if I'm having to lower some patches lower than -25 db, that is bad and not normal? Or is this, is what it is? Curious. Don't wanna start going nuts just to find out it's not kosher.
 
Yeah, that means that you're probably boosting the signal somewhere else in the chain.
 
Tremonti said:
So if I'm having to lower some patches lower than -25 db, that is bad and not normal? Or is this, is what it is? Curious. Don't wanna start going nuts just to find out it's not kosher.
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I am very interested in this as well. I spent the last two evenings leveling and leveling again. Some of my presents are below - 25 db for sure...while most are in the -10 to -20 db range. Per CHris's video, I have been using using mixer to boost the volume...(assuming I understood his video correctly...leveling is leveling my brains flat)
 
Nagi Mysore said:
I am very interested in this as well. I spent the last two evenings leveling and leveling again. Some of my presents are below - 25 db for sure...while most are in the -10 to -20 db range. Per CHris's video, I have been using using mixer to boost the volume...(assuming I understood his video correctly...leveling is leveling my brains flat)
Click to expand...
As far as I know, Chris uses the Amp block Level parameter to level his presets. That's a common practice. It's not vital that you use that parameter, but it really helps if you always use the same parameter every time. Some people use the Output Mixer Level parameter instead.

Whatever parameter you use, if you have to set it below -25 dB, it's because there's something else in your signal chain that's boosting your signal. That's usually not a deal killer, because the Axe-Fx has huge amounts of internal dynamic range (more than 1400 dB). But it's still helpful to figure out where that extra boost is coming from, and dial it back, particularly if you wind up tapping off a signal somwhere in the middle of the chain at some future time.

My presets usually wind up with the Amp's Level parameter somewhere between -10 and -20 dB (I try to keep my levels around 10 dB below output clipping).
 
I think this entire time I have been looking at the red input lights going off thinking that was the output! So I just need to adjust my input level globally and should be set. Not had a chance to get to practice space, but will report back tomorrow.
 
Tremonti said:
I think this entire time I have been looking at the red input lights going off thinking that was the output! So I just need to adjust my input level globally and should be set. Not had a chance to get to practice space, but will report back tomorrow.
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Lol... so you tried to remove input clipping by turning down the output? That's rough buddy! ;)
 
Tremonti said:
It's all in comparison to other patches. I don't use the the amp level to control volume overall. But if all the patches are set at a certain level and one amp is causing clipping and I cant get it loud enough to not clip....then I have to rearrange the levels on all the other patches(lower them)....then increase the manual knob for overall level on outside of Axe Fx II unit.....then set up the patch that was issue.
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This is the exact way I set up my presets. I wouldn't really say its an issue as much just being a pain. Usually it's the clean presets that cause me to have to lower all my gain presets due to clipping on the clean

It would be great if the meter in the utility menu had a number or percentage associated with it. So it would be easy tell when we're at unity gain.
 
boltrecords said:
This is the exact way I set up my presets. I wouldn't really say its an issue as much just being a pain. Usually it's the clean presets that cause me to have to lower all my gain presets due to clipping on the clean
Click to expand...

See first reply in thread for an easier solution.
 
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