Saw Dweezil w/ his Ultras on ZPZ at Prog Nation 2009

Z

Zen Guitar

Member
Hi All,

I saw Dweezil as part of the Zappa Plays Zappa show that was on the Prog Nation 2009 bill with Dream Theater.

I could easily see his two Axe-Fx Ultras on stage from where I was sitting and pointed them out to some friends. It was interesting to contrast his tones versus those of his other guitarist who was playing tube amps (and also versus the other acts that used tube amps on stage).

Of course, Dweezil played remarkably (as did his whole band). He is very laid back on stage and seemed to be very well practiced, as he made his often complicated and technical lines seem effortless.

Cheers,
-Matt
 
Zen Guitar said:
...It was interesting to contrast his tones versus those of his other guitarist who was playing tube amps (and also versus the other acts that used tube amps on stage)...
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What was different? Which tones sounded better? Etc...
 
It's hard to say what the differences were due to, as there could be a great many factors at hand such as how the Axe-Fx's and amps were each dialed, the guitars used, the players themselves, the FOH mix, etc, so I was refraining from saying too much in my original post. Also, I've seen a lot of people in this forum get a bit "sensitive" when these kinds of comparisons are made, so I try not to create posts that invite extremists on either side to flame each other. So, if we can all promise to be nice and keep in mind that this is a coming from a guy who owns an Ultra himself (and likes it very much)...

IMHO, the tube amps on stage sounded much better... The Axe-Fx didn't sound bad at all... Quite good, actually. However, there were obvious differences to me in terms of depth, detail, "alive" characteristic, "organic"ness, and other words that I'd have to manufacture to cover the "je ne sais quoi" factor that I hear with my own amps when contrasting them to the Axe-Fx. The tube amps were more present, sat better in the mix, seemed more dynamic, and were more 3D sounding to my ears. To make bad analogies, I might use the "light beer versus regular beer", the "diet soda versus regular soda", or the "condom verus no condom" analogy. :mrgreen:

That all said, the average Joe in the audience probably never knew the difference. I've just had 25 years of playing and plenty of sound engineering to make me OCD enough to hear all these things. Some of the people who I went to the show with could tell the difference, but my OCD'ness has probably rubbed off on them over the years from going to concerts and talking tones, etc.

I will say that the effects sounded wonderful and it was certainly a very compact solution, especially for one with so many different sounds on tap. I think that the Axe-Fx is definitely heading in the right direction, but I think we're a few bus stops from where we're heading for live use. ;)

...or we could just blame it all on the sound guy!

Cheers,
-Matt
 
Good review Matt! Thanks for that.

I, for one, encourage any review. While I don't call this one negative at all, I would say it's closer to a 'non-positive', or neutral in comparison to the other rigs.

Of course, that could be because of the factory cabs!

KIDDING KIDDING KIDDING KIDDING everyone!

Ron
 
You'd think Dweezil himself would notice the difference between his tones and the other guitarists. Either that or his sound guys, guitar tech, or maybe even one of the other guitarists would mention it.

Something like "Damn Dweez, that Axe sure sounds good but it doesn't cut nor is it as organic or 3d as the other guys".

Maybe they did tell him and he just doesn't care. :shock:
 
If I had to schlep his old rig around I'd give up a little bit of tone too for the Axe's convenience. Does he run IEM's?
 
Thanks, I too think that's a pretty cool review, and I would like to hear DZ himself chime in if he ever has the chance, as I know he tends to hang around these parts occasionally.

If you do read this or happen to know, is he using the factory cabs, or the custom IR's?

Cause I bought the redwirez impulses today and oh my freaking god, the difference is astronomical.
 
I saw them in San Jose. The other guitarist was playing Bogners. From my nosebleed seats it looked live a Shiva and Alchemist head. He had really amazing tone. However, it sounded like a typical smooth Bogner lead tone and not really dialed in to fit typical Zappa's tones on record. On the other hand, Dweezil's tones sounded like they were dialed in to replicate the original sounds. I would have liked the tones to sound a bit fatter and nastier like with Frank on his live recordings. Perhaps part of the issue could be that Dweezil is a more precise player than his father. Regardless, both sounded great the night I saw them and are no doubt amazing players.

That Petrucci guy wasn't half way decent too. He should have brought the Axe-FX on stage.
 
I'll contrast this with my observations from the Columbus OH show earlier this summer, and seeing ZpZ with each of the previous two setups Dweezil was using. I thought the tones from the Axe-Fx were the best Dweezil has achieved in regards to mimicing the "spirit" of Franks tones. I thought the Fuchs rig sounded too fat, smooth, and mid-heavy. It did not have enough bite or rawness IMO. I liked the first rig with the Cornford better than the Fuchs setup. No doubt, his tone was excellent with all three setups, but my preference for ZpZ is the tones he is getting with the Axe-Fx this summer. YMMV....

I'm not a huge fan of the Bogner Shiva when I plug into one (I just don't seem to sound good through those for some reason) but I have a couple friends who use the Shiva and they sound great. So I may be a bit biased against the Shiva, but personally liked Dweezil's Axe-Fx tones better than Jamie's tones - at least in Columbus this summer. I thought Jamie's tone sounded thin and brittle. But I have several audience recordings from other shows this year and Jamie's tone is excellent on those. So maybe it was the mix or where I was sitting in Columbus (2nd row center)? The Axe stands up well in my opinion, but then again, Dweezil is going to get the best out of what ever he uses.

Now if only Dweezil would offer some shows on the website.... I'd be all over that!
 
ethomas1013 said:
I'll contrast this with my observations from the Columbus OH show earlier this summer, and seeing ZpZ with each of the previous two setups Dweezil was using. I thought the tones from the Axe-Fx were the best Dweezil has achieved in regards to mimicing the "spirit" of Franks tones. I thought the Fuchs rig sounded too fat, smooth, and mid-heavy. It did not have enough bite or rawness IMO. I liked the first rig with the Cornford better than the Fuchs setup. No doubt, his tone was excellent with all three setups, but my preference for ZpZ is the tones he is getting with the Axe-Fx this summer. YMMV....

I'm not a huge fan of the Bogner Shiva when I plug into one (I just don't seem to sound good through those for some reason) but I have a couple friends who use the Shiva and they sound great. So I may be a bit biased against the Shiva, but personally liked Dweezil's Axe-Fx tones better than Jamie's tones - at least in Columbus this summer. I thought Jamie's tone sounded thin and brittle. But I have several audience recordings from other shows this year and Jamie's tone is excellent on those. So maybe it was the mix or where I was sitting in Columbus (2nd row center)? The Axe stands up well in my opinion, but then again, Dweezil is going to get the best out of what ever he uses.

Now if only Dweezil would offer some shows on the website.... I'd be all over that!
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I agree with this(in Denver). The band w/ the ENGLs, yuck! edit - I mean the amp tone, not the band ;)
Big Elf - the orange amp sounded great, raw, and meaty. It would have been completely out of place with Zappa.
I didn't hear but one song from Dream Theater, we were talking with Dweezil during most of the Dream Theater show.
I thought Jamie tone was thin and brittle as well, especially with his Les Paul. I am a Shiva fan. I still have one. I love them.
I thought Dweezil's tone was representative of Frank Zappa's tone with a bit a Dweezil twist. I really think that listening to the original material helps give a greater appreciation of what he was going for.
We were 8th row center. Mike L (here on the forum), thought the same thing as the original poster. The other 3 of us thought what I expressed. I think it really comes down to preference and expectation.

To be honest, I ceased caring very shortly into the show because I was blown away by the musicianship of the band. The "is this good tone" portion of the brain shut down and the "damn their good" portion took over. Although I really did dig his dynaflange sound.

One thing I did notice. Since Dweezil did not have any back line amplification and the line arrays were pretty spread out with no center coverage. Some of Dweezil's patch were missing a defined center. I wasn't just Dweezil's sound but the marimba and keys could get that way as well.
 
The 'band with the ENGLs' hardly suck. Scale The Summit are fantastic, wonderfully written material. Tones not the greatest but it suits them. Check out their last album 'Carving Desert Canyons', sounds great, I love how smooth the playing is. Very dry sound but it works well for them.

Edit: oops, misread your post as you claiming they sucked, Java, which I hope you weren't. :lol:
 
Fler said:
The 'band with the ENGLs' hardly suck. Scale The Summit are fantastic, wonderfully written material. Tones not the greatest but it suits them. Check out their last album 'Carving Desert Canyons', sounds great, I love how smooth the playing is. Very dry sound but it works well for them.

Edit: oops, misread your post as you claiming they sucked, Java, which I hope you weren't. :lol:
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No, I didn't mean they sucked. They were good, especially for their age!. Yes very dry. I just didn't like the ENGLs.
 
Can't say I'm an ENGL enthusiast either, but they seem to the work for the band. I do hope they start getting into playing with effects and such though, that band could well become something very interesting. Chris Letchford, the 8 string guitarist, is a regular at sevenstring.org where many of the forumites are AxeFX lovers, so I know he's well aware of what it can do. Suppose it's not really necessary for what they do, but theres always more time to convert, hehe.
 
I can honestly say I didn't notice a huge difference between Dweezil's tone on this tour and on his previous ones with the boutique amps. However, it's somewhat tough to compare tones from an outdoor amphitheater gig (Merriweather Post Pavilion) to earlier shows that were in theaters and clubs. I didn't notice any lack of bottom end or cut with the Axe-FX, even though solid-state setups usually do lack some of those things in comparison to tube rigs.

To my ears, Dweezil has gradually been moving away from imitating his father's tone and style as the ZPZ tours have gone on, not just on the current one. He's putting more of his own thing into it--which is a good thing, IMHO.

Of course, part of the difficulty of imitating Frank's sound is deciding which of his sounds to imitate, since it changed dramatically over time. My personal favorite is the sound he was getting in 1978-79 with the custom SG and the more heavily overdriven rig--his best combination of saturation and snarl, in my opinion. Dweezil's base tone in ZPZ has always been smoother than that, edging into the sound that FZ got in the early '80s. Given that Dweezil started playing in the early '80s, that's probably not surprising.
 
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