Sanity check with preamp tube types

G

guitarscientist

Member
Hi everyone!

I own an axe fx II XL and just wanted to see if anyone else is experiencing what I have been. It is possible that everything is working as designed ,is user error, or paranoia, but here is what I have been struggling with recently.

When I loaded 18.04b, I could hear a difference between the three new preamp tube types. Some time after installing the non-beta 18.04 firmware release, I started to notice that I could not hear a difference between the three pre-amp tube types anymore, and I'm not sure that the amp models sounded right (could be my imagination).

I tried a lot of different things from resetting system params to re-downloading and reinstalling the firmware to clearing all presets and cabs and starting preset from scratch.

I also noticed that the modeling modes and mimic switch did nothing to the sound as well.

So I installed 18.06 today and I still can't hear a difference between the two pre-amp tube types. I have tried resetting params, re-installing/downloading and many different amp models (with and without master volumes).

However, now the modeling mode is kind of "working". I can't hear a difference between authentic and ideal, but when i switch to smooth or ideal/smooth, there is a slight decrease in volume from the other two. Once in smooth or ideal/smooth mode, i can now hear a difference between the two preamp tubes. That is the only time i hear a difference (also, smooth and ideal/smooth sound the same) and the sound of the short plate preamp tube has slightly more "body" and is slightly louder than the long plate.

mimic still does nothing that i can hear.

I would expect to hear some difference between the preamp tube types in authentic modeling mode and understand that some amps may only have a very subtle effect, but I am not hearing any difference at all in the amps i have been trying so far (plexi's, freedman's, cameron's, 5153's, deluxe verb, and various other clean or mid to high gain amps), not even a slight subtle change and not even a pop or click when switching the types (i hear a pop sound when switching preamp tube types in smooth or smooth/ideal modeling mode, and a pop when switching from authentic or ideal to smooth or ideal/smooth).

Is anyone else experience anything similar to this? is this normal behavior? can anyone confirm that that they can hear a difference between the preamp tubes and let me know what amp they are using? or maybe post a preset that works so that I can try it on my axe fx?

I love this thing and really want to make sure there is nothing wrong so that Im getting the best tones I can from it.

Thanks in advance!
 
Sounds pretty normal really. Most tones I've created, be they on the Axe, analog rigs etc, never seemed to sound quite as good when I went back and played them. Still sounded good, but reality never seems to quite match my memory.

I've lost track of the number of pedals I bought and then sold, started to miss, and somehow the replacements never sounded as good as I remember.

I've recorded stuff and a/b'd it and it actually does end up sounding the same, but its just when you first play a really great tone, and your inspired, things just sound a little sweeter. Come back later, not quite in the moment anymore and things just don't seem the same.
 
They are very subtle changes and if you aren't tuned into these types of things you probably won't hear a difference.
 
I'm in the "can't hear a difference" camp for the pre-amp tube type, through after reading this post, I'll try again to get tuned into it. Its confounding to me how so many here describe significant differences between the tube types and/or express strong preference for one of the other while, despite some serious listening, I just can't hear the slightest difference between them.

I mean ... ya, I'm a 50+ old fart but I didn't think my hearing was that bad -:)
 
sprint said:
I'm in the "can't hear a difference" camp for the pre-amp tube type, through after reading this post, I'll try again to get tuned into it. Its confounding to me how so many here describe significant differences between the tube types and/or express strong preference for one of the other while, despite some serious listening, I just can't hear the slightest difference between them.

I mean ... ya, I'm a 50+ old fart but I didn't think my hearing was that bad -:)
Click to expand...

You have to realize that those who post here are just a 1% minority of overall Axe users and sometimes what is "major" to individuals who obsess over this stuff (thus being regulars on this forum) is something that 99% of the majority of users never would hear.

Doesn't mean its not there, but its just not always as obvious as you'd think given the forum "majority" opinion of things.


That holds true for most any enthusiast websites on the net too. The subtle difference in flavors of certain vintage years of wine may be totally "obvious" to guys who post 2000 messages a year on wine forums, but to someone like me ALL wine taste the same lol.

I'm into cycling and read some forums and darn if there aren't guys who debate differences of 1lb pressure in tires, if a bike climbs better with just a clear coat of paint instead of an actual color because that paint adds like 20grams of weight etc. HUGE differences to some, imperceptible to others, even when its the exact same thing.
 
guitarscientist said:
Hi everyone!

I own an axe fx II XL and just wanted to see if anyone else is experiencing what I have been. It is possible that everything is working as designed ,is user error, or paranoia, but here is what I have been struggling with recently.

When I loaded 18.04b, I could hear a difference between the three new preamp tube types. Some time after installing the non-beta 18.04 firmware release, I started to notice that I could not hear a difference between the three pre-amp tube types anymore, and I'm not sure that the amp models sounded right (could be my imagination).

I tried a lot of different things from resetting system params to re-downloading and reinstalling the firmware to clearing all presets and cabs and starting preset from scratch.

I also noticed that the modeling modes and mimic switch did nothing to the sound as well.

So I installed 18.06 today and I still can't hear a difference between the two pre-amp tube types. I have tried resetting params, re-installing/downloading and many different amp models (with and without master volumes).

However, now the modeling mode is kind of "working". I can't hear a difference between authentic and ideal, but when i switch to smooth or ideal/smooth, there is a slight decrease in volume from the other two. Once in smooth or ideal/smooth mode, i can now hear a difference between the two preamp tubes. That is the only time i hear a difference (also, smooth and ideal/smooth sound the same) and the sound of the short plate preamp tube has slightly more "body" and is slightly louder than the long plate.

mimic still does nothing that i can hear.

I would expect to hear some difference between the preamp tube types in authentic modeling mode and understand that some amps may only have a very subtle effect, but I am not hearing any difference at all in the amps i have been trying so far (plexi's, freedman's, cameron's, 5153's, deluxe verb, and various other clean or mid to high gain amps), not even a slight subtle change and not even a pop or click when switching the types (i hear a pop sound when switching preamp tube types in smooth or smooth/ideal modeling mode, and a pop when switching from authentic or ideal to smooth or ideal/smooth).

Is anyone else experience anything similar to this? is this normal behavior? can anyone confirm that that they can hear a difference between the preamp tubes and let me know what amp they are using? or maybe post a preset that works so that I can try it on my axe fx?

I love this thing and really want to make sure there is nothing wrong so that Im getting the best tones I can from it.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Here's my 2 cents on the preamp tube topic.

I, like you, noticed a difference between the 3 preamp tube types during the 18.04b release. I don't think I messed with it much with the regular 18.04 release, BUT, what I did notice in the TEST version, seems to be the "Short" version. And the reason why I say this is, not necessarily because of the sound, but more the feel in the difference. Its more subtle than the beta release, but it's there. I feel the "Long" version doesn't let you dig in as hard. Almost like it makes you fight the amp a little to play. They both have good, yet subtle, characteristics.

There you go, 2 cents.
 
I definitely hear a difference in 18.06, and heard the difference between the three types in 18.04. But I don't think it will be apparent if you typically play with lot of gain, where the subtlety of how the circuit is saturating is overwhelmed. Try it on lower gain settings, like an ODS on the overdrive rhythm channel, and it will be really easy to hear.
 
lqdsnddist said:
You have to realize that those who post here are just a 1% minority of overall Axe users and sometimes what is "major" to individuals who obsess over this stuff (thus being regulars on this forum) is something that 99% of the majority of users never would hear.

Doesn't mean its not there, but its just not always as obvious as you'd think given the forum "majority" opinion of things.


That holds true for most any enthusiast websites on the net too. The subtle difference in flavors of certain vintage years of wine may be totally "obvious" to guys who post 2000 messages a year on wine forums, but to someone like me ALL wine taste the same lol.

I'm into cycling and read some forums and darn if there aren't guys who debate differences of 1lb pressure in tires, if a bike climbs better with just a clear coat of paint instead of an actual color because that paint adds like 20grams of weight etc. HUGE differences to some, imperceptible to others, even when its the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

Well said.

Except... all wine tastes the same!?!?!

Dude, ya just gotta drink more...

Carl
 
thanks for all the replies, really appreciate it.

so, I'm pretty sure I have entered into the realm of insanity lol... I just spent about an hour listening to a loop of one chord switching between the pre-amp tube types. In the end, I finally heard a difference with an ODS amp just breaking up. sounds like the short plate has slight more gain/volume and the long plate is smoother with slightly less gain/volume. its VERY VERY subtle however. maybe my monitors (focal CMS 50) aren't as detailed as I would like. who knows.

anyway, back to playing...by the way, fw 18.06 sounds and feels incredible. as soon as I played it the first time i could immediately notice clarity and the notes seem to "sing". felt like i was one with the guitar :D. thanks so much Cliff and everyone at fractal for the incredible amount of effort and care that you all put into this thing. absolutely amazing. I wish every company would be as passionate about what they are doing as you guys are.
 
yes it's my monitors...not sure why i didn't think of this before, but I decided to plug into my Blue headphones and the difference in the pre-amp tube types is more obvious. I can hear it on the freedman BE as well. time for new speakers \m/
 
I am able to hear the difference, it might be your setup in terms of what speakers you're using or if your hearing isn't able to hear it. But yeah there is a slight diff.
 
they do sound really good, could also be my room though. Im using them in my living room at the moment which opens up into the kitchen area (tri-level) and there's some pretty nice "reverb" going on lol. I have the focal cms sub as well, which has a really tight/punchy sound. I don't really hear the guitar through it since the crossover is at 90hz, but drums and bass sound awesome. The cms 50's work great for recording/mixing, but I have to admit I haven't tried any other monitors than these ones so I don't know how they compare.

Now that I have heard the difference in the headphones and know what to listen for, I can hear the difference in pre-amp tubes through the focals, its just not nearly as obvious. It sounds very very subtle to the point of inaudible especially with the higher gain amps. The short plate has slightly more body and gain/volume than the long plate from what I can tell.

Im on the atomic CLR list, so hopefully some day Ill be able to give those a whirl.
 
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