Roll back or not? Undecided

Your ears become accustom to a certain sound over time. I don't think v9x was any better than v10x, just different. It's all a matter of adjusting to the changes, finding the sound(s) you're looking for, and moving on.
 
axel said:
Your ears become accustom to a certain sound over time. I don't think v9x was any better than v10x, just different. It's all a matter of adjusting to the changes, finding the sound(s) you're looking for, and moving on.
Click to expand...

Yep, pretty much what I said.
 
axel said:
Your ears become accustom to a certain sound over time. I don't think v9x was any better than v10x, just different. It's all a matter of adjusting to the changes, finding the sound(s) you're looking for, and moving on.
Click to expand...

Funny you mention this... This is what I feel might be happening to folks really loving FW10.

If you pay attention, most, if not all the rebuttle about FW10 is to "Take some time to learn the new FW and build your patches from scratch..."

What may be happening is users are forcing themselves to stick with FW10 long enough so that they kinda forget what previous FW versions sounded like and get familiar with how FW10 sounds and then convince themselves its way better. I'd like to know if any FW10 users have tried rolling back to early versions just to see if they still dig FW10 as much.

FWIW, I keep putting this in my posts, but its important. I use FW7 at live gigs, but spend almost every night tinkering with FW10. There REALLY is some special stuff going on in the firmware, but there are some serious drawbacks that effect elements of the sound that have concerned me. I've not given up at all and bounce back and forth a lot. Currently FW10 beats all for realism, detail and texture, but FW7 beats FW10 for punch, bounce, cut, body and fullness.
 
and thats what I mentioned earlier - Im afraid of FW10, as someone who hasnt heard an Axe II since FW 4 or so, I bought it thinking I would get what you guys are describing FW 9 to be; "polished", punchy fullness that can cut.. I sold my Kemper because while it was undoubtedly the most "real" of any tube amp modeller out there; It basically is a tube amp.. but I didnt like or care for that AT ALL. I also feel I've made the same mistake going for a Matrix Q12 which gives me the most "guitar-like" FRFR system you can get, when Im obviously looking for that "amp in ANOTHER room" type polished studio sound of a powered monitor. Im not trying to recreate someone else's amp, I want to make the most professional, "studio-quality" sound for myself.
 
Gamedojo said:
Funny you mention this... This is what I feel might be happening to folks really loving FW10.

If you pay attention, most, if not all the rebuttle about FW10 is to "Take some time to learn the new FW and build your patches from scratch..."

What may be happening is users are forcing themselves to stick with FW10 long enough so that they kinda forget what previous FW versions sounded like and get familiar with how FW10 sounds and then convince themselves its way better. I'd like to know if any FW10 users have tried rolling back to early versions just to see if they still dig FW10 as much.

FWIW, I keep putting this in my posts, but its important. I use FW7 at live gigs, but spend almost every night tinkering with FW10. There REALLY is some special stuff going on in the firmware, but there are some serious drawbacks that effect elements of the sound that have concerned me. I've not given up at all and bounce back and forth a lot. Currently FW10 beats all for realism, detail and texture, but FW7 beats FW10 for punch, bounce, cut, body and fullness.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate this point of view.

Over time I've come to appreciate your amp knowledge and ears in regards to the presets you make and their demos.

Your real life back and forth from 7 to 10 is one of the only if not the only credible comparison for me.

Richard
 
Gamedojo said:
Funny you mention this... This is what I feel might be happening to folks really loving FW10.

If you pay attention, most, if not all the rebuttle about FW10 is to "Take some time to learn the new FW and build your patches from scratch..."

What may be happening is users are forcing themselves to stick with FW10 long enough so that they kinda forget what previous FW versions sounded like and get familiar with how FW10 sounds and then convince themselves its way better. I'd like to know if any FW10 users have tried rolling back to early versions just to see if they still dig FW10 as much.

FWIW, I keep putting this in my posts, but its important. I use FW7 at live gigs, but spend almost every night tinkering with FW10. There REALLY is some special stuff going on in the firmware, but there are some serious drawbacks that effect elements of the sound that have concerned me. I've not given up at all and bounce back and forth a lot. Currently FW10 beats all for realism, detail and texture, but FW7 beats FW10 for punch, bounce, cut, body and fullness.
Click to expand...

I've rolled back a couple of times since tweaking my patches for V10 and reloaded old presets for comparison. Still prefer V10. So yeah, um... bollox. ;)
 
Skyze said:
and thats what I mentioned earlier - Im afraid of FW10, as someone who hasnt heard an Axe II since FW 4 or so, I bought it thinking I would get what you guys are describing FW 9 to be; "polished", punchy fullness that can cut.. I sold my Kemper because while it was undoubtedly the most "real" of any tube amp modeller out there; It basically is a tube amp.. but I didnt like or care for that AT ALL. I also feel I've made the same mistake going for a Matrix Q12 which gives me the most "guitar-like" FRFR system you can get, when Im obviously looking for that "amp in ANOTHER room" type polished studio sound of a powered monitor. Im not trying to recreate someone else's amp, I want to make the most professional, "studio-quality" sound for myself.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but really it's nothing to be afraid of, you can choose to utilise whichever FW version suits your needs best and swap back and forth which is the beauty of this unit so dive in and enjoy it!

For what it's worth, I'm back on V10 now. I found that the factory presets in 9 were mostly better for me compared to those in 10. However, the thing really stood out is that fremen's presets all sound significantly better in 10 which kind of convinced me that it is ultimately worth digging into 10 and sticking with it which was my gut feeling all along but I needed to convince myself. It may not be the same for everyone.
 
I bought my Axe FX II the beginning of April. It came loaded with V10. I have 9.02 on it now. From an Axe FX newbie point of view, I like them both, but as of right now I much prefer the sound and feel of V9.02. I hope I don't get flamed for saying that. I'll fill in the details later, I am still exploring. So far I have only been listening to presets on both versions and having too much fun so all I have been doing is playing guitar rather than diving into the deeper features of the Axe FX.
 
Gamedojo said:
Funny you mention this... This is what I feel might be happening to folks really loving FW10.

If you pay attention, most, if not all the rebuttle about FW10 is to "Take some time to learn the new FW and build your patches from scratch..."

.
Click to expand...

Yes "Take some time to learn the new FW and build your patches from scratch..." Searching and leaning, finally getting close to what you had.
Then (if history repeats itself, and it probably will) you can start all over again when FW 11 is released. "and you say, dont upgrade if your unhappy with the new"
This is good, however the new version of Axe Edit that hopefully is coming with the next FW, will probably not work with your fine tuned version of FW 10, so in order
to get the best, most complete package of FW & AE, you will update, and the question continues.. To roll back or not.....
 
There has been sporadic advice in different threads on how to achieve prior firmware processed tones while in V10.
As of yet nothing in the Wikki.

We need a thread or a place to put all the suggestions together.Perhaps someone could start one?

Maybe Cliff and Matt will put a handful of patches together and post them on the exchange.
I'm under the impression what we need is all in the Cab and amp blocks, and I'm not technical enough to figure it out.

I need some classic rock, blues, patches for live use through FRFR & FOH.

These do not need to be set up with effects; I can handle that on my own.

I really would like to just stick on FW10 forever, and have live use patches available to sound like the recorded album while doing cover tunes.

I played through a V10 Marshal patch the other night and it was great tone.
....But the AX can reproduce tones that sound like the album of many different artists. I need that ability with V10....
 
Last edited:
RonnR said:
Yes "Take some time to learn the new FW and build your patches from scratch..." Searching and leaning, finally getting close to what you had.
Then (if history repeats itself, and it probably will) you can start all over again when FW 11 is released. "and you say, dont upgrade if your unhappy with the new"
This is good, however the new version of Axe Edit that hopefully is coming with the next FW, will probably not work with your fine tuned version of FW 10, so in order
to get the best, most complete package of FW & AE, you will update, and the question continues.. To roll back or not.....
Click to expand...

I highly doubt your prediction will be accurate
 
As we all know .....individual needs, wants and desires are more often than not widely varied!

When we hear clips and recordings of certain amp tones we are totally unfamiliar with (ie.. Euber, Nitro, or whatever) and develop a liking and attraction to those tones and FEEL.... IMHO we really want That sound! Not to mention the amps we grew up with!

To many of us that "sound & feel" comes first, all the polishing and studio shine comes after.
At times on stage (more often than not) .....I want that polish and studio shine. And times I want that amp "rawness"!.....that high end sizzle bacon frying that Cliff noticed and alluded to. Also, what we always found undesirable before now becomes desirable and vice versa! A continual learning process! I love those "Aha!" moments!

All the other modular systems easily provide that polish and shine but lacks severely in that "sound & feel".

At least to my ears and senses, V.10 is a drastic improvement in that regard! Cliff has managed to home in and develop a way for us to control what happens to the guitar signal along all the sophisticated input and output stages throughout the path the signal takes in the amp circuitry! And I was quick to boast that I could easily be content and live with the Ultra for the next 10 decades!

No doubt there will be more refinements and additions we eagarly look forward to but hopefully in other areas of the Axe, Axe Edit and the MFC as well.

In the end ....it's what makes you play better!

Lastly, ....sculpting "your" sound is like cooking,.....tastes differ greatly...one man's poison is another man's gourmet meal! So to the individual it may not be "better".
 
Gamedojo said:
Funny you mention this... This is what I feel might be happening to folks really loving FW10.

If you pay attention, most, if not all the rebuttle about FW10 is to "Take some time to learn the new FW and build your patches from scratch..."

What may be happening is users are forcing themselves to stick with FW10 long enough so that they kinda forget what previous FW versions sounded like and get familiar with how FW10 sounds and then convince themselves its way better. I'd like to know if any FW10 users have tried rolling back to early versions just to see if they still dig FW10 as much.

FWIW, I keep putting this in my posts, but its important. I use FW7 at live gigs, but spend almost every night tinkering with FW10. There REALLY is some special stuff going on in the firmware, but there are some serious drawbacks that effect elements of the sound that have concerned me. I've not given up at all and bounce back and forth a lot. Currently FW10 beats all for realism, detail and texture, but FW7 beats FW10 for punch, bounce, cut, body and fullness.
Click to expand...


It sounds like our live experience with the firmwares are similar. I was running 7 until 10 came out. I love recording with 10 but for me running into a head/cab setup 10 just doesn't seem to cut or sound as big quite like 7. Like my previous post said I have used the global parameter to change the FW to 7 but it doesn't sound or feel like 7.... How are you switching back and fourth?
 
I suppose we could simply not worry about it and just live with whatever sort of sounds we get...but then we'd all be buying Line XXX if that was our attitude :)
 
Oh man... some of the models I am really digging in FW 10. Some that I used to love, not so much. I kind of don't care for what happened to the 6160 models (the FAS 6160 used to rip my nuts right off), and the VH4 is just not to my interest anymore at all. That said:

One of my buddies came over to my studio today and the first thing he said when he heard a recent recording (with FW10) was "Damn that sounds fucking awesome. Like a real fucking amp!" I record a lot of high gain stuff.

9.02 was nice - Particularly the FAS Modern had this super crushing tone. It still has a crushing tone, but the sound is less tame. I find that I have to cut more lows and low mids, and that the high end is a little less defined - at the same time, less brittle. For recording, I'm finding that all together, the guitars fit into a mix much more nicely. I can't say for live use because I am not playing live right now. Overall I'd say I'm happier with FW10 in terms of realism, even with the additional work it brought along with it.
 
stm113 said:
....... How are you switching back and fourth?
Click to expand...

Full blown re-install. I gig on fri and saturday. Then On Sunday I save my FW7 presets (about 12) and load up FW10. Spend the week tinkering and learning. Do my best to make a FW10 version set of my 12 patches. Then on Thursday, I save all my working patches (IF I feel they are good enough to keep) and reinstall FW7.

Its a chore for sure. But its the only method that is going to work. Eventually once I've wrapped my head around FW10 I'll experiment it at a gig or two. But I'm not quite there yet. ( though I have made some good headway even tonight).
 
For myself V10 is the best yet. Treat V10 like a new girlfriend find out what she likes best twist the knobs and she will sing better than the older version , you can't treat the new one like the old one. They like different things, when you find out what buttons to push,which knobs to twist she will sing for you like you never heard. Just like an old girlfriend you will go back to her a few times and then you'll go to the new version, maybe play both of them for a while? But we all know that never works out we'll have to pick one :) I feel you can get any of the older versions with V10, if you have to record the older versions and tonematch them with V10 :roll
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom