Rhythm guitar, rhythm guitar !!

J

JohnBee

Inspired
That's some of the whining I hear sometimes from my band. I'm the only guitar in the band and I do leads and rhythm. But lately they want a rhythm guitar player to fatten up the sound especially on solos. I personally like one guitar, one bass, one drummer and a singer and I feel it's fine when we are all properly micd up playing out. I guess since we won't be adding a second bass or drummer I don't want another guitar.

I'm looking for any advice from one guitar guys or girls in bands on how to fatten the sound more especially during solos in the higher registers. Or how to fatten the sound in general. Some one guitar bands just don't seem to have a problem while others have that bottom drop out problem. I have noticed it helps with a good busy bass player or a singer who likes to sing during solos.
 
It might be fun to have another guitar player around to trade licks with, and bounce new ideas off of. Either that, or maybe have your band consider keys instead of another guitar player. I was in a trio in college and we invited a good friend to sit in on keys a few times and it was a blast! Give it a try?
 
JohnBee said:
That's some of the whining I hear sometimes from my band. I'm the only guitar in the band and I do leads and rhythm. But lately they want a rhythm guitar player to fatten up the sound especially on solos. I personally like one guitar, one bass, one drummer and a singer and I feel it's fine when we are all properly micd up playing out. I guess since we won't be adding a second bass or drummer I don't want another guitar.

I'm looking for any advice from one guitar guys or girls in bands on how to fatten the sound more especially during solos in the higher registers. Or how to fatten the sound in general. Some one guitar bands just don't seem to have a problem while others have that bottom drop out problem. I have noticed it helps with a good busy bass player or a singer who likes to sing during solos.
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When you are soloing, it becomes the rhythm sections job to hold down the rhythm, and that section in a 3 piece is Bass and Drums. What I've found works well is talking this point over with the bass player and get him to bring some extra while you are soloing, and this usually entails him using a chorus or short delay or some other form of stereo processing that expands insteads of compresses, not just being more busy on the guitar. Another key point is making sure your solo tone is dialed in properly so it sits in the mix instead of on top of it, as usually in a 3 piece you don't even need a boost unless the song itself really calls for it. IMO when the solo is too loud it's completely separated from the mix and sounds horrible.

Spend some time on youtube looking a 3 piece bands playing live, there are many of them, and study how they are mixed and how they approach this. What I've noticed is most bass players are more like the rhythm guitar player in these scenarios, but as always, it depends completely on the type of music you are playing.
 
Beyond the looper and the chance that the section preceding the lead break is the same progression and short enough, there's little you can do with your sound as a substitute to replace another instrument

Adding some dazzle with bass & drums can help, so spin it back on those guys :)
 
I also think keys is a good alternative idea. I was the same as you for many years (in my younger days) When we brought in this keyboard guy it added many dimensions . I really feel I played better myself. Plus the guy sang harmony real well-Good luck with whatever you do
 
Thanks guys. I should have said we would like a keyboard player but we can't find one or they all will only play if payed. I've played with a keyboard player and yes it fills in all the gaps. To Severed, how do I dial in a lead tone that sits in the mix instead of on top? I think I have that problem when it's time to solo. The guitar seems to jump out too much. We are playing rock songs. One song in particular is nothing but a good time by poison. The rhythm is fat and juicy but then those first notes of the solo are on the 22nd fret and it just seems that the rhythm mojo dies.
 
It might seem a bit counter intuitive at first, but try taking a bit of the bottom end out of the rhythm guitar sound. Make up the extra fatness in the bass (eq, compression, maybe a touch of distortion). If the bottom end drops out when you stop playing rhythm, the bottom end is relying on you. Let it rely on the bass player, then build your sound to kind of sit on top of it.

Sincerely,
A sometimes bass player.
 
Frankly, it can be tough to make it sound right when one guitar has to hold down both rhythm and lead work. It's fine when the music is written for a three-piece band (e.g., Van Halen). But for most music, you have to make compromises that you'd rather not make.

I frequently find myself having to perform double duty on songs with two electric guitar parts. Even though there's usually an acoustic guitar or keyboards, some of the body of the song drops out when you stop playing that driving rhythm to take a lead. I'd kill for another electric guitarist.

As others have said, your rhythm section needs to really be on point to make it work. You can also thicken your lead tone with effects, play leads that are more rhythmic or chordal, tweak your lead tone... But it's still a compromise.
 
Your band should not blame YOU if something sounds "thin" when you are playing a solo. There is a word called "Dynamic" which isn't just your job alone. This is also, what a drummer and a bassplayer should do. Stops, Haltime, Breaks, there are sooo many things that can make a solo spot more interesting than just playing rhytm, when the guitar solo is played.
 
Cover'd said:
Beyond the looper and the chance that the section preceding the lead break is the same progression and short enough, ...
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Just a friendly nitpick: It does not have to be a preceding section.

A couple of firmwares ago we got the ability to stop looper recording without immediate playback. Then you can play it later... At least I think we got that... haven't got a chance to try it yet.

That's how I want to use the looper - record a lick when it first occurs in, say, the first verse and maybe harmonize it the second time through. I'm not so much into loopy loopy repeat repeat music. ;)
 
rdnzl said:
Just a friendly nitpick: It does not have to be a preceding section.
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Needs to have come from somewhere though - I could be wrong as I don't use it that way, but I'm not sure the AxeFX has the ability to store and recall a heap of sampled takes... yet! :)


Anyhoo, looking at the other instruments and arrangement would be the better route. Ever wondered why Alex Van Halen played that big splashy ride so full on..?
 
Cover'd said:
Needs to have come from somewhere though - I could be wrong as I don't use it that way, but I'm not sure the AxeFX has the ability to store and recall a heap of sampled takes... yet! :)
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That's true - no multiple takes and only one looper. Let's see what the XL brings to the table...

Cover'd said:
Ever wondered why Alex Van Halen played that big splashy ride so full on..?
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Right!
 
JohnBee said:
One song in particular is nothing but a good time by poison. The rhythm is fat and juicy but then those first notes of the solo are on the 22nd fret and it just seems that the rhythm mojo dies.
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The band I'm in covers that Poison tune also. When it comes to the solo, I just go for it.

Try not to over process your lead tone, a little delay will help fill the sonic space.

When we are working up a tune I go to youtube & see how the original band covers the space in a live situation. Also as Severed said, check out other cover bands on youtube for ideas.
 
Rook said:
It might seem a bit counter intuitive at first, but try taking a bit of the bottom end out of the rhythm guitar sound. Make up the extra fatness in the bass (eq, compression, maybe a touch of distortion). If the bottom end drops out when you stop playing rhythm, the bottom end is relying on you. Let it rely on the bass player, then build your sound to kind of sit on top of it.

Sincerely,
A sometimes bass player.
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Exactly.
In addition, the drummer can add a lot by adding in something a little different on the drums. Do you guys run subs? If not, I would suggest getting some. It will help add to that bottom end where guitar doesn't exist. Also, make sure that your rhythm guitar tone is not really a lead guitar tone. In other words make sure that when you go for a solo there is actually a slight increase in the loudness and fatness on the guitar tone. A subtle difference will help make the change from rhythm to lead better.

There are also many things to take into consideration when doing the two guitar thing. It is easy to end up stepping all over each other if you don't know the tricks to playing with multiple guitars.
 
As a lead guitarist, I won't play in a band unless I have a rhythm guitarist. I want all my parts to shine, and not having a rhythm with the style of music I pay "metal,neo classical" would blow imho and I pretty much lose interest in live shows that have 1 guitarist in a song that needs two, just seems like the guitarist/band is only giving half the effort, to me the music has to rise above everyone. Few guitarist can pull off being single, Van Halen is one, Vito Bratta is another, and there are a few more but for the most part, I hope you change your mind on that and bring in someone.

Btw if you do bring in someone it should be your decision who will be backing you up so that should make things easier:)
 
I've done both. First "real" band was just me on guitar with a monster bass player. We pulled it off. A few years later I found myself in another band with the same bass player, but we wanted to open up some possibilities that just weren't achievable with one guitar, so we brought in another player.

I've been in several bands in my 39 years of playing, and I honestly enjoy the dynamics and the tonal canvas that can be painted with two guitars. I'd have no issues jumping in a power trio with bass & drums again, but preference will probably always be two guitars.

YMMV
 
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