Rethink, Rework, Reboot. Building a preset - JCM800 - Major Twist for ANY Preset

Scott, a couple of questions.

First, am I correct in understanding that there would be no difference between using the +1 and +2 PEQ and the +3 PEQ, as you have them laid out in your OP?

Also, the adjustments you made to the bright cap and the speaker resonance--do you adjust those settings for most amps, or is that just something you happen to do with the 800? If it's something you do regularly, would you mind explaining a little bit what your rationale is and how you go about finding the setting you're looking for?
 
gendefect said:
Scott, a couple of questions.

First, am I correct in understanding that there would be no difference between using the +1 and +2 PEQ and the +3 PEQ, as you have them laid out in your OP?

Also, the adjustments you made to the bright cap and the speaker resonance--do you adjust those settings for most amps, or is that just something you happen to do with the 800? If it's something you do regularly, would you mind explaining a little bit what your rationale is and how you go about finding the setting you're looking for?
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As you ask the question, there is no real tangible difference between combining the +1db and +2db as compared to using the +3db, no. That's the beauty - you can stack them/mix-n-match then as you want to. It adds a whole slew of 'profiles' to your amp that are all very feasible and practical.

I always change the bright cap if I feel the amp needs the bright switch on and is too bright. I do not always use the bright switch; it's on a case-by-case basis.

I do ALWAYS change the cabinet resonance since it was mentioned by Cliff and then folks like Mike at Red Wire and Jay Mitchell gave us actual numbers to work with. Every cab is different. I tend to start at 110Hz and them play a muted E power chord and listen. When it sounds 'right' with the cab - when I 'hear' the cab resonating - I stop adjusting. Every amp/cab combination is different. You can guess what I will type next: use your ears to find the sweet spot. :D
 
Scott Peterson said:
As you ask the question, there is no real tangible difference between combining the +1db and +2db as compared to using the +3db, no. That's the beauty - you can stack them/mix-n-match then as you want to. It adds a whole slew of 'profiles' to your amp that are all very feasible and practical.
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Cool. That's what I figured. So, just a thought. Some folks (like me) might find it useful to, instead of upping the DB in your PEQs by 1, 2, 3, and 4, upping them by, 1, 2, 4, and 6. You can still get all the configurations you can get with 1, 2, 3, 4, as well as some additional ones, plus the ability to just hit the +6 with one button. It's probably too much for some folks, but I like the idea of running the amp quite clean and then being able to take it from that to quite gain-y with the PEQs.

Just an idea I thought I'd share.

Thanks for all the inspiration, Scott.
 
gendefect said:
Cool. That's what I figured. So, just a thought. Some folks (like me) might find it useful to, instead of upping the DB in your PEQs by 1, 2, 3, and 4, upping them by, 1, 2, 4, and 6. You can still get all the configurations you can get with 1, 2, 3, 4, as well as some additional ones, plus the ability to just hit the +6 with one button. It's probably too much for some folks, but I like the idea of running the amp quite clean and then being able to take it from that to quite gain-y with the PEQs.

Just an idea I thought I'd share.

Thanks for all the inspiration, Scott.
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Run with it man. That's the entire point - take something from others ideas, build on it and do your own thing. I cannot count the folks that have helped me have epiphany moments along this journey. Any little bit I can do to help other folks makes my day.
 
So far, I've settled on a +2 and a +4. I really don't think I can afford to have more than 2 PEQ's assigned as IA's on the MFC-101. And I can get +6 with both of them engaged.

If I did the math correctly.
 
Hello there Scott... is that your Tape Drive setting you had emulated from a Valvulator type pedal you purchased and then returned? I can't seem to find that other post... Thanks!
 
mortega76 said:
Hello there Scott... is that your Tape Drive setting you had emulated from a Valvulator type pedal you purchased and then returned? I can't seem to find that other post... Thanks!
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No. I've removed that. The Drive block in this preset is a preamp boost that sort of colors the timbre, but doesn't fizz it up. More of a gentle OD that is more natural to my ears.

Point of fact: I was sent the Red Iron Amps tube buffer to review. I didn't buy it and return it. I got it, reviewed it, and returned it as was arranged from the beginning.
 
Scott Peterson said:
New Cab mixes - the key has always been to simplify. I've bought and tried the OwnHammer IR's; they are really good. But I want to alter them, and cannot, based on my goals. But what I heard using them is the clarity and tightness on the bottom end. Then it hit me, proximity effect. So I altered my base mix with Red Wire and came up with a MUCH simplified mix that just blew me away. As you will see in the cab block, it's a single high resolution cab.

Here's the formula (just copy and paste into the MixIR app on the RedWirez site):

G12M Mix14
Marshall1960A-G12Ms-SM57-CapEdgeOffAxis-5in.wav,0.95
Marshall1960A-G12Ms-4038-Room.wav,0.05

Now, as you are listening - hear the cabinet resonance. There's no reverb, no anything here - but you HEAR the cab. The idea is to pull the mic away from the speaker, note here it is 5" from the cap edge. Note the 5% room is exceptionally important to hearing the full tone. It works, IMHO, fantastically. Simply.
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I have to say this isn't working for me. As the lone guitarist in a tribute band that historically used (a minimum of) two guitar parts for 90% of their songs, I need a tone that's thick and full, but without the bottom end killing the bass guitar. I tried this new IR recipe of Scott's on several of my patches and found I'd lost a lot of the 'body' of my sound, which began to feel harsh and brittle sounding.

I've always used Scott's previously recommended Redwirez recipe for all my speaker mixes and personally find it to be far superior – for my purposes at least. For the curious amongst you, this used to be the gospel according to Scott ;) and I for one, am still a believer :

nameOfCab-SM57-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
nameOfCab-R121-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
nameOfCab-KM84-BackOfCab-0in.wav,0.028

or alternatively :

nameOfCab-SM57-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
nameOfCab-R121-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
nameOfCab-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.028

However, the PEQ block tips are absolutely golden and have already found their way into several of my patches. Great stuff and many thanks Scott.
 
jonPhillips said:
I have to say this isn't working for me. As the lone guitarist in a tribute band that historically used (a minimum of) two guitar parts for 90% of their songs, I need a tone that's thick and full, but without the bottom end killing the bass guitar. I tried this new IR recipe of Scott's on several of my patches and found I'd lost a lot of the 'body' of my sound, which began to feel harsh and brittle sounding.

I've always used Scott's previously recommended Redwirez recipe for all my speaker mixes and personally find it to be far superior – for my purposes at least. For the curious amongst you, this used to be the gospel according to Scott ;) and I for one, am still a believer :

nameOfCab-SM57-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
nameOfCab-R121-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
nameOfCab-KM84-BackOfCab-0in.wav,0.028

or alternatively :

nameOfCab-SM57-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
nameOfCab-R121-CapEdge-2in.wav,0.486
nameOfCab-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.028

However, the PEQ block tips are absolutely golden and have already found their way into several of my patches. Great stuff and many thanks Scott.
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As a question - you are not using the PEQ blocking with the new mix IR are you? If so, do not do so. Also note the Low Cut on the amp block is 50Hz on most all amps, that's part of it and it goes hand in hand with the Speaker Resonance setting (in this case 110hz).

This is a system. I am finding my solo tones are MUCH better in any context, I can "hear the cab" fully now. The older mixes with back of cab and more evenly split across two mics (and close in at the 2" mark) are tubby and 'cluttered' sounding next to this newer one.
 
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Scott Peterson said:
As a question - you are not using the PEQ blocking with the new mix IR are you? If so, do not do so. Also note the Low Cut on the amp block is 50Hz on most all amps, that's part of it and it goes hand in hand with the Speaker Resonance setting (in this case 110hz).

This is a system. I am finding my solo tones are MUCH better in any context, I can "hear the cab" fully now. The older mixes with back of cab and more evenly split across two mics (and close in at the 2" mark) are tubby and 'cluttered' sounding next to this newer one.
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That's something to think about Scott.

I run an overall blocking PEQ with a low cut at 81Hz and a hi cut at 6kHz – are you suggesting ditching this? Also, what effect will the low cut on the amp have?

Seeing as how I've always had great results using your techniques, it'd be shame to write this one off just yet.
 
jonPhillips said:
That's something to think about Scott.

I run an overall blocking PEQ with a low cut at 81Hz and a hi cut at 6kHz – are you suggesting ditching this? Also, what effect will the low cut on the amp have?

Seeing as how I've always had great results using your techniques, it'd be shame to write this one off just yet.
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Ditch the PEQ after the cab block. This is key. The whole idea of this IR mix is to remove that from the equation. Removing the low end sludge from the preamp (using the Low Cut on the Advanced page of the Amp Block) clears up what the preamp does and gets rid of a lot of subsonic nonsense that just ends up being a muddy low end. The other key is changing the speaker resonance (Amp Geek page) with this particular cab mix (Greenback 412) to 110Hz. Exceptionally important.

Try those three things. It's worth the effort.
 
Scott Peterson said:
The other key is changing the speaker resonance (Amp Geek page) with this particular cab mix (Greenback 412) to 110Hz. Exceptionally important.
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One more question Scott (thanks for your patience) – how do you calculate what speaker resonance to use for different speakers?
 
Soundshell777 said:
Gotta say I love this idea Scott.
Im sure you've posted it, but what foot board are you using?
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MFC-101. (Excuse my crappy cell phone pics, but that's what I have right now...)

IMAG0202.jpg


IMAG0201.jpg


jonPhillips said:
One more question Scott (thanks for your patience) – how do you calculate what speaker resonance to use for different speakers?
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I don't calculate it. I start at 110Hz based on what Jay Mitchell has posted and Mike from Red Wire shared. Then I play a palm muted E power chord and listen as I change the value. When I hear the cab 'thump' the way I like, I stop.
 
Thanks for the informative post Scott!
That modular PEQ idea has inspired me to use them to make my patches work with all of my guitars.
Up til now I've been creating guitar-based patches with the name of the guitar in the patch, but this might be a good way to clean things up a bit.
 
jonPhillips said:
Many thanks Scott, I'm going to give this another go this evening.
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I really hope you do. I've found that this - and it's just my opinion, YMMV - is a truly worthwhile change in approach. I hope it works for you, it sincerely has for me. I keep hounding the guys in the band and sound guys for their opinions because I'm so excited. I am probably coming off like a tone geek to most of them. From the soundguys in the past 3-4 weeks, the feedback on the tone is really positive. So geek or not, at least it's working. LOL.
 
Hope this question makes sense, but what is the advantage of using 2 or 3 PEQ blocks, vs. setting up a single PEQ with multiple frequency boost points?
 
Each PEQ block is already boosting the halved, center and doubled frequencies. It's impossible to set a single block up to switch, or add, boost levels on the fly. This is the advantage of Scott's method.

If you only need one boost amount, use one block.
 
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