Regression of old songs while learning new.

dsouza

dsouza

Experienced
I’ve noticed as I learn new material my old built up set list takes a beating.

The more new songs I learn the more the regression of older material.

Anyone face this? I don’t think it’s just a matter of practice. Say you have 20 songs in your set list then new song 21 is complex like say November Rain, I would find learning it in a decent timeframe causes the other 20 to not be as smooth anymore.

Then you’ve got to practice all 21 until they’re smooth as butter again and then when you start with song 22 same problem all over again.

I didn’t notice this problem when my set list was 5-6 songs but as it grows this regression problem sets in.

Has anyone experienced this?
 
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I spent about four years in a cover band with a weekly house gig, so three nights a week, five sets a night, every week. We added two or three new songs every week to keep things fresh, and often pulled out old songs that we hadn’t played in months. FWIW, our bass player maintained a “master list” of every song we had performed, whether it was a rehearsed song in regular rotation or just a song that somebody requested that we did off the cuff. This list was well over 300 songs.

I never found myself having the problem that you are describing.
 
Frodebro said:
I spent about four years in a cover band with a weekly house gig, so three nights a week, five sets a night, every week. We added two or three new songs every week to keep things fresh, and often pulled out old songs that we hadn’t played in months. FWIW, our bass player maintained a “master list” of every song we had performed, whether it was a rehearsed song in regular rotation or just a song that somebody requested that we did off the cuff. This list was well over 300 songs.

I never found myself having the problem that you are describing.
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If you can really master 300 song set list chances are you’re better than most guitarists.

I’ll be happy to master 20-30 after which it becomes time to just polish everything.

30 is three hours performance — plenty for me.
 
dsouza said:
If you can really master 300 song set list chances are you’re better than most guitarists.

I’ll be happy to master 20-30 after which it becomes time to just polish everything.

30 is three hours performance — plenty for me.
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Define “master.” It was a bar band, which means playing the standards for drunk people. Very little of what we did was note for note, but all of the important bits that people recognize were there.
 
Isn't November Rain like 3 chords over and over and over with a slight variation in the bridge? Oh wait IIRC it has an ending section that is 4 chords over and over.
 
Yes, we have about 50 in our regular rotation and when we add new complex songs some of the older complex songs take a bit of a hit sometimes. I have to be diligent about keeping the chops up on those songs. Sucks getting older….. :oops:
 
Rex Rox said:
Isn't November Rain like 3 chords over and over and over with a slight variation in the bridge? Oh wait IIRC it has an ending section that is 4 chords over and over.
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I was referring to November Rain as Slash plays it note for note. It’s a complex song just like Hendrix’s material. Lots of lead work.

Some people on this forum think they can learn and master new complex material in 6 hrs. They're showboating.

No way anyone’s mastering Little Wing by Hendrix in 6 hours. It would literally take years to master it as good as this old video from 1969.

 
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dsouza said:
30 is three hours performance — plenty for me.
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Sounds like my local terrestrial radio: play the same core 30 songs over and over again for years.
I can't take a 20-minute drive in my car anywhere or any time without hearing the same Steve Miller, Queen, Journey, or Eagles hits.
* but that's another topic, right? *
 
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dsouza said:
Some people on this forum think they can learn and master new complex material in 6 hrs. They're showboating.

No way anyone’s mastering Little Wing by Hendrix in 6 hours. It would literally take years to master it as good as this old video from 1969.
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spoken with such authority something you can't possibly know.
 
It might have something with how you learn, practice and memorise songs.

If you just try to memorise one note at a time it will be harder to remember a song than if you have a solid understanding of music theory and can see why the song is written the way it is. If you can see a musical phrase as a pattern in a scale or as a part of the underlying harmony it will be much easier to remember.

Gerald Klickstein the author of the book "The muscians way" (recommended reading by the way) likes to use 5 zones in practicing.

  1. New material
  2. Developing material
  3. Performance material
  4. Technique
  5. Musicianship
https://www.musiciansway.com/blog/2017/12/the-5-practice-zones/

By working really slow in the first two zones and really gaining an understanding of the material you will probably be able to remember song easier.
 
dsouza said:
I’ve noticed as I learn new material my old built up set list takes a beating.

The more new songs I learn the more the regression of older material.

Anyone face this? I don’t think it’s just a matter of practice. Say you have 20 songs in your set list then new song 21 is complex like say November Rain, I would find learning it in a decent timeframe causes the other 20 to not be as smooth anymore.

Then you’ve got to practice all 21 until they’re smooth as butter again and then when you start with song 22 same problem all over again.

I didn’t notice this problem when my set list was 5-6 songs but as it grows this regression problem sets in.

Has anyone experienced this?
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I've experienced what you're talking about. The complexity of the song is a big factor for me, but how I learn and understand the song is usually a bigger factor. If my learning leans on "memorization" it's harder for me to recall after a break from it. If I work on my "understanding" of the song I have better results short and long term. By this I mean understanding progressions, key, scales, main motifs, etc., and how the song might be similar or different from other songs. Generally, if I learn a song well enough that I can write a chart from memory and include notes regarding important components it should be with me for a while, or at least come back quickly. That said, I suspect individual learning style is probably the key ingredient here - I seem to benefit from organizing things in writing, but that might be a waste of time for someone else.
 
dsouza said:
I was referring to November Rain as Slash plays it note for note. It’s a complex song just like Hendrix’s material. Lots of lead work.

Some people on this forum think they can learn and master new complex material in 6 hrs. They're showboating.

No way anyone’s mastering Little Wing by Hendrix in 6 hours. It would literally take years to master it as good as this old video from 1969.

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Little Wing is not a complex song either. I am sure plenty of peeps on this forum could learn it convincingly enough in 30 mins or less. I learned it when I was 16 and I think it took me an hour or 2 (Clapton's version). That was without sheet music, charts or tabs - just a cassette and a rewind button.

Jimmy wrote it but I much prefer Stevie's version over them all.

 
Rex Rox said:
Little Wing is not a complex song either. I am sure plenty of peeps on this forum could learn it convincingly enough in 30 mins or less. I learned it when I was 16 and I think it took me an hour or 2 (Clapton's version). That was without sheet music, charts or tabs - just a cassette and a rewind button.

Jimmy wrote it but I much prefer Stevie's version over them all.

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Have to agree with you about Stevies version. I prefer that one over the original as well. I learned Stevies version when i was 17. Lots of great guitar licks to learn from in that one!
 
People have misinterpreted me. I didn't say it's impossible to learn Hendrix Little Wing in 6 hrs.. I was talking about mastering it.

Indeed Stevie's version is great. They are both classics. Props go to Hendrix because he created it.
 
dsouza said:
People have misinterpreted me. I didn't say it's impossible to learn Hendrix Little Wing in 6 hrs.. I was talking about mastering it.

Indeed Stevie's version is great. They are both classics. Props go to Hendrix because he created it.
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It's a blues jam. I guarantee Jimmy never played it the same way twice, neither did Clapton or SRV.

If by mastering it you mean playing the leads note for note on a particular recording what is the point? Again it is an improv blues jam so learn the chords and have fun improvising. You will learn more that way.
 
Yeah, mastering a song can mean different things to different people.

To me for instance mastering a song does not mean playing it like the original, but knowing the song so well that you can create your own version of it on the spot. Like Stevie Ray did for instance or when Jimi played it differently each time.

I almost never play a song like the original anymore, unless that's what i get hired for. I like doing my own interpretations of songs and improvising my own solos and creating new variations.

For others the goal can be playing it perfectly like the original with every little detail and that's ok to of course.
 
What you're describing sounds to me like short term memory. It can only hold so much. New stuff will start pushing the old out.

But long term memory is more permanent. I have plenty of songs I learned as a teen that, after a few times through to brush up on, I can play them pretty much note-for-note.

Sounds to me like you just need to get the new songs you're learning committed to long term memory, before you start working on another. And use 'cheat sheets' as you're doing so.
 
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