Regression of old songs while learning new.

Piing said:
I another thread you said that you were committed only to U2 riffs, to play them as solo instrumental act at weddings, anniversaries, birthdays, etc. You were offering resistance when people was telling you that learning other material could be fruitful. It is good to know that you are finally expanding you repertoire beyond The Edge 👍
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Don't get me wrong, I love the Edge's minimalist style. He gets so much out of so little. But not everyone digs U2. I will still learn a decent amount of U2 singles and keep them in my repetoire. Most likely their greatest hits that 99% of people recognize during the Joshua Tree period. But yes I keep my future options open to other well known lead guitarists.
 
I don't ever really "learn" a song to the point where I'm not going to "make it my own" to some extent. That's just me though.
 
Goonie said:
Nice! My band's looking for a second set of extras! This should be quick work!
Might work some of these in to the main sets. :p
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I think people would love it honestly! Everyone loves the riff and then the changes in songs are the cherry on top. Best of luck! Could never get my band to try it!
 
chris said:
why?
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I could be wrong so feel free to correct me, but I believe in some situations it boils down to legalities.

If you’re selling a cover like on bandcamp etc it shouldn’t deviate from the original.

If it does it is considered improvised material not a cover song.

This has to do with copywriting and applies to sales of cover music.

For just performing a performance is considered the rights of the individual performing and not necessarily the original artist who created it. So you wouldn’t earn a copyright strike there.
 
While I'm on a roll. Here's another awesome mastery performance of Little WIng.
She's performs like a Hollywood Celeb, but hasn't been discovered at that level yet.

 
chris said:
What makes this seem like a Hollywood celeb?
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She was featured alongside David Gilmour in Guitar World for their covers of Purple Rain ( A dedication to Prince's death).
David Gilmour an international icon, Eva a Youtube star.

 
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Yeah, the second clip shows her talent better, at least for me...
 
PatrickWD said:
It might have something with how you learn, practice and memorise songs.

If you just try to memorise one note at a time it will be harder to remember a song than if you have a solid understanding of music theory and can see why the song is written the way it is. If you can see a musical phrase as a pattern in a scale or as a part of the underlying harmony it will be much easier to remember.

Gerald Klickstein the author of the book "The muscians way" (recommended reading by the way) likes to use 5 zones in practicing.

  1. New material
  2. Developing material
  3. Performance material
  4. Technique
  5. Musicianship
https://www.musiciansway.com/blog/2017/12/the-5-practice-zones/

By working really slow in the first two zones and really gaining an understanding of the material you will probably be able to remember song easier.
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There's a lot of good info ^^^^^.

One thing I couldn't understand is the author states to not slip into mindless muscle memory.

I mean if you have 30-100 songs in your setlists committed to Long term memory how much of that is conscious thought while playing and how much of that is muscle memory?

Sure you don't just want to be 100% autopilot. But for very fast runs , consciously thinking while playing will slow you down. It's easier to play faster than slower for many people because the latter requires conscious thought while the former is like being on autopilot.

When we first learn to drive a car we think of everything. The gas pedal, the brakes, the steering wheel , the indicator lights, changing gears etc but as we become pros at driving that becomes autopilot and our thought processes then shift to finding the easiest routes to getting from A to B.

It's not that conscious thought disappears, it that its focus changes. When learning new music its fruitful to practice in a quiet space until you get smooth as butter. But when performing, the concept of quiet space disappears and distractions abound. So that's where conscious thought comes in (Like the analogy with the car). You then have to consciously be aware of the environment, if the crowds digs what you're playing or you need to change songs up, if your rig is too loud or soft in the venue and it pissing management off. This is akin to the experienced driver whose conscious focus thus changes on the most efficient way to get from A to B (not how to drive).
 
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dsouza said:
There's a lot of good info ^^^^^.

One thing I couldn't understand is the author states to not slip into mindless muscle memory.

I mean if you have 30-100 songs in your setlists committed to Long term memory how much of that is conscious thought while playing and how much of that is muscle memory?

Sure you don't just want to be 100% autopilot. But for very fast runs , consciously thinking while playing will slow you down. It's easier to play faster than slower for many people because the latter requires conscious thought while the former is like being on autopilot.

When we first learn to drive a car we think of everything. The gas pedal, the brakes, the steering wheel , the indicator lights, changing gears etc but as we become pros at driving that becomes autopilot and our thought processes then shift to finding the easiest routes to getting from A to B.

It's not that conscious thought disappears, it that its focus changes. When learning new music its fruitful to practice in a quiet space until you get smooth as butter. But when performing the concept of quiet space disappears and distractions abound. So that's where conscious thought comes in (Like the analogy with the car).
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I think what he's talking about there is mainly during practice, not performance.
During performing "muscle memory" will play a larger part, but during practicing it's better to be able to be able to reflect upon what you just played and find ways of improving or ways of doing thing differently.

But there's also things you can focus on while your muscle memory does some of the work.

Like you are saying with your car analogy some parts of your playing will become more or less automatic: like picking technique, bending in tune, chords etc. That frees your mind up so you can think about musical expression instead.
So in stead of thinking about alternative picking when practicing you can focus on rhythmic placement, dynamics, phrasing and other musical elements that makes something go from sounding ok to sounding great.

So mindless repetition would mean just going trough the song over and over again from muscle memory without focus or reflection.
 
Music is a language. Just like speaking, music has patterns and repetition. If I’m answering a yes or no question, by now I don’t need to think “what’s the word for yes…. Ahh it’s yes….. YES.”

I just say yes.

Similar to knowing the major bar chords if I need a G chord I just play it. Same for soloing or single notes, in many songs you may play a major 3rd between notes G and B. Once you’re familiar with what a major 3rd sounds like, when your mind calls it up to be played next, you can play it in whatever key you’re in, whether it’s a U2 song or a different U2 song.

The feel is usually what’s being called on in real-time, just like you may say the same sentence with words in an excited manner or in a sad manner.

At first with anything it’s hard memorization. But if you start learning patterns or recognizing intervals, often it’s the same notes you’ve played before, just with a different intent, tempo, etc.

Learning small phrases to string together - just like with words - is also helpful so you aren’t thinking “I have to play these next 15 notes” but instead play this phrase/riff followed by this other one - 2 things to think of rather than 15.

Patterns should start becoming clear after 10 - 20 years of playing, usually sooner if you’re looking for them. If I have to think of what a C#m chord is and how to hold it before starting a song, I haven’t been paying attention and haven’t learned it well enough.
 
Semi-OT but not really, I listen to the Broken Record podcast a lot, which includes interviews with a wide variety of musicians, including many who have been performing for many decades. One thing that weirds me out a bit is that many of them have lots of extraordinarily detailed memories from back then. Dates, places, other musicians on the gig and in the audience, how they got there, songs they played and how it went, tons of other stuff that happened.

Seems like a certain kind of brain has that sort of memory capability. Don't think they try to do that, it's just how their record of events got recorded.

Wish I had some more of that myself.
 
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