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Refining Clean Tones

GtarGreg

Inspired
I'm in the rabbit hole. Maybe you have a better way to set up Scenes in a preset - mainly clean tones. I set my scenes up with a single amp in each preset. My favorite crunchy tone is the JCM800 so far - the one Ive been gigging with - really useful and roll off with the volume know on the guitar.

I set up: Scene 1 = clean; 2 = crunch 3 = high gain 3 = Filterboost for any of the 3.

I've been getting the S1 clean tone by dialing back the 'input drive' and cranking up the 'input trim'; using Scene Controllers for this. For S2, I'll roll back the trim and crank up the drive to taste. Some amps, however, like the Matchless or the Lone Star are harder to clean up this way. (Some amps may not clean up well anyway, I know)

I also see that there are output faders for the scenes as well. My assumption is that the input trim/drive are more for getting the "tone" the way you like it (front of the amp); but if I can get a better clean tone, maybe level the scene with the fader instead.

What to you all do? Do you X/Y with the same amp type as well? (I know that worked for my Vox amp experiments). Maybe a different amp? Im a classic rocker - think Styx/Journey/Foreigner/Aerosmith. Also some more classic crunch like Petty tunes.

Any creative input appreciated!
 

chris

Legend!
i'm not sure what you're asking. just how other people do it and examples? or to critique what you're doing? is what you're doing now not clean enough?

one thing i'll say is that my understanding of the input Trim is that it adjusts the "distortion" part of the gain without affecting the volume. it's interesting that for your cleanest tone you are increasing that Input Trim, which would "increase the distortion." i know you're also taking the Drive down, but it's just interesting as those seem to be opposite. maybe the tone gets full when you do it, not sure. but on paper it seems counterproductive to a clean.
 

GtarGreg

Inspired
@chris Sorry, yes, I was asking about input 'trim' usage. It seems to raise the volume when I need to turn the drive down to get clean. Interesting. So, if I lower that and lower the drive both; my overall volume is very low but the tone is clean.

Maybe boost the low volume up with a filter block or GEQ?
 

Sonofiam

Forum Addict

unix-guy

Legend!
@chris Sorry, yes, I was asking about input 'trim' usage. It seems to raise the volume when I need to turn the drive down to get clean. Interesting. So, if I lower that and lower the drive both; my overall volume is very low but the tone is clean.

Maybe boost the low volume up with a filter block or GEQ?
If you just want to even out your volume after pulling the drive and/or trim down then you can use the Level control of the Amp block, or the Scene level.

The Amp Level is more obvious when trying to find volume issues.

Also note that putting a scene controller on Amp Drive can lead to extraneous CPU load depending on the amp model.
 

paulasbell

Inspired
"my overall volume is very low but the tone is clean."
I suspect you're missing the idea of what the Level control is all about in the amp block. THAT is probably what you want to be raising, not the Input Trim, in order to get your best clean tone, at a useable volume.
Read the link posted by Sonofiam, above. If you're still in the dark, I can be more specific.
 

chris

Legend!
@chris Sorry, yes, I was asking about input 'trim' usage. It seems to raise the volume when I need to turn the drive down to get clean. Interesting. So, if I lower that and lower the drive both; my overall volume is very low but the tone is clean.

Maybe boost the low volume up with a filter block or GEQ?
use the LEVEL parameter to compensate the volume. it's exactly why it's there, and why it's available directly on the VU meter page when leveling your presets with the A knob.
 

Davus PG

Inspired
I use scene controllers to do what you're trying to do. I'd be happy to send you one of my old attempts, but if you want something that will get you what you want from the off with the JCM800 then I'd recommend you get Moke's JCM800 "clean to mean" patch.

I did and it became the basis for virtually of my current patches.

It has a few things in it that are unique to Moke though, so I can't give you that, but happy to share my earlier efforts which were all based on Smittefar's superb scene controller tutorial in which he shares his demo preset.

You can find that in the tutorials, tips & tricks sticky thread:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/video-ax8-tutorials-tips-and-tricks-compiled-list.116158/#post-1459441
 
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Smittefar

Fractal Fanatic
If you want to get clean tones, raising input trim is not the right way, as it adds to the distortion. As it has been mentioned, you should rather raise the level. Unfortunately, you cannot attach a scene controller to the amp block level, but you can attach a scene controller to the cab block level and achieve the same.
 

GtarGreg

Inspired
use the LEVEL parameter to compensate the volume.
@chris Thanks. I note in the manual that a scene can save "the preset’s Output Mixer Main level. This is useful for creating a BOOST, or to normalize the level across scenes." Is this the same as Amp's "Level" control of the Mixer area of the Amp block? So, that level is saved per scene? Or is that the Output Mixer "Scene" tab level control? (or both?).

Great stuff you guys, thanks much. I'll try the preset examples too per all of your suggestions.
 

Smittefar

Fractal Fanatic
It's the output mixer scene volume slider. While it is very easy to use, it is not optimal to use. It will boost or cut your entire signal, and that just sounds weird, if you have a delay trail or a long reverb that rings out. The delay trail or reverb will be cut or boosted abruptly when you change scenes, if you have large changes on the scene volume slider.
 

GtarGreg

Inspired
Unfortunately, you cannot attach a scene controller to the amp block level, but you can attach a scene controller to the cab block level and achieve the same.
This answers it for me. I started playing with input trim for this reason. Ill try cab block vs input trim. My filter blocks are for boosts and to compensate for several guitars. Thanks!
 
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Ghost_of_Cain

Inspired
You could also use a cab block with the 'null' IR you find in Cab exchange.
Well, provided that level works the same for null cab, this could be a great idea.

I'll tell you why:

I will probably be using from time to time AX8 with frfr monitor at home, and with a real cab at the rehearsal room. I could get away with the same preset I dialed at home, just x/y the cab at the rehearsal to null one, having all my level changes still working and filter block left for other purposes!

Sounds feasible? Can't check, I sold my AX8 long ago and still waiting for the new one... :)
 
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