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RedWirez and OwnHammer IR's Live?

bstoner

Inspired
The RedWirez and OwnHammer IR's seem to sound great for recording and at lower bedroom levels but in a live sitch to me they sound thin and fake. I find myself always going back to the factory IR's. Anyone one else getting this as well?

For those of you using them live what is the secret?

Thanks

b
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
No secret. I use stock, Red Wire and Ownhammer in recording and live situations weekly. Whatever works. Tools for the job.

Great selection between them, great range of available tones that can suit whatever particular need you have no matter what style you play or tonal goals.

Brand loyalty isn't a religion or monogamous relationship for me, I use what works and they all work for me in regards to IR's.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
The RedWirez and OwnHammer IR's seem to sound great for recording and at lower bedroom levels but in a live sitch to me they sound thin and fake. I find myself always going back to the factory IR's. Anyone one else getting this as well?

For those of you using them live what is the secret?

Thanks

b
It's not the IRs probably, but the volume level at which you've dialed in the amps.
Dial stuff in at gig volume, and things will work out better live.
 

Jens

Power User
And you could of course also make some patches that sound great at the volume you play at home :)

Jens
 

bstoner

Inspired
Thanks for the responses.

It seems when at gig level the mids and delays seem to vanish and the highs are way to loud.

Any idea why that is happening?

I guess i will have to make two sets of patches. Is that what you guys are doing ?

Although i would prefer to NOT make to sets of patches.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
ok. Thanks Scott.

So you use separate patches for live then correct?
No, I do not. I do my patches at about 100db or so when I make them. Once I've done them, I really don't do anything to them. It's putting in the work in the first place, then it's just fun after that. I do not 'retweak' much unless there is some reason to do so (ie. a firmware change that requires reassessing my presets).

I'm a set it and forget it guy. (Which is counter to what many would believe).
 

Stratoblaster

Fractal Fanatic
Yes sir, they have. IMHO, if you want to adjust for playing levels or output, use the global EQ and then reset it. Do that if you absolutely have to. Two sets of presets? No thanks. Too much work.
That's exactly the same method I use; tweak at gig levels at home, or rehearsing with the band, then use the Global EQ to compensate for any volume, and/or room/environment, differences when you go out to play.

I've found that works well for me...
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
When I switched to dialing in patches at gig level, I found that when I turned down to bedroom level, the patches were still acceptable to me.

In other words, I didn't have to re-EQ or anything that way.

YMMV,
Richard
 

sprint

Power User
Yes sir, they have. IMHO, if you want to adjust for playing levels or output, use the global EQ and then reset it. Do that if you absolutely have to. Two sets of presets? No thanks. Too much work.
Question: When your tweaking at Gig, what's your proximity to your rig? Are you sitting close to it like you would with stuido monitors, or are you leaving some space between you and your rig while tweaking.
 

Robboman

Fractal Fanatic
I can only comment on Ownhammer VS stock, but my live experience is the exact opposite of the OP. Ownhammers are fat, juicy, meaty and whatever adjective you prefer. REAL, with minimal tweaking. I like! This is coming from the perspective of someone who uses a real guitar cab onstage.. I'm talking about Ownhammer IRs direct to FOH.

When I first got my Axe I spent a crazy amount of time tweaking in pursuit of full FRFR joy. I liked the concept of ditching physical guitar cabs. I used QSC HPR12 on stock IRs, PEQ after cab. It sounded great but in the end my ears were too conditioned to want the sound of my cab, not the sound of a miked cab. Since I already had great guitar cabs I finally said "hell with it", bought a power amp to drive them and have been happy ever since.

FOH you will hear a miked cab regardless, the choice is whether to just mic the cab or use IRs. So I did lots of A/B testing - I set up all my presets to send pre-IR to my cab onstage and post-IR to feed FOH direct. I have to limit the number of IRs I use to keep things sane, and they have to sound ballpark similar to my real cab. I like the simplicity despite the limitation. For the most part I preferred IRs (using stock ones at the time), but it wasn't a slam dunk and I was tempted to say "hell with it" and just put a mic on the cone like always.

A lot of time passed, I read lots of RedWirez discussion but never tried them out of aversion to complexity. I'd finally settled on something simple, and I liked it. Then Ownhammer came along and I read a few rave reviews, plus I was about to do some recording so I bought the bundle. Wow, really consistently great without overwhelming options, so I worked my favorite ones into all my live presets. Listened through vocal wedges at band practice - wow again, it sounded great! At the next few gigs I stood near FOH mix position at soundcheck (wireless guitar) I'm pretty amazed.. this is a very familiar PA in a big dance hall. I can't possibly make it sound that good with a mic on my cab (which is up on stage as usual).

Next band practice I show up early and I'm A/B-ing between my cab and the Ownhammer IRs through vocal wedges.. damn.. yeah, it's good. I could actually live with that.

So now I'm considering ditching guitar cabs again, and the difference was Ownhammer.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
I can only comment on Ownhammer VS stock, but my live experience is the exact opposite of the OP. Ownhammers are fat, juicy, meaty and whatever adjective you prefer. REAL, with minimal tweaking. I like! This is coming from the perspective of someone who uses a real guitar cab onstage.. I'm talking about Ownhammer IRs direct to FOH.

When I first got my Axe I spent a crazy amount of time tweaking in pursuit of full FRFR joy. I liked the concept of ditching physical guitar cabs. I used QSC HPR12 on stock IRs, PEQ after cab. It sounded great but in the end my ears were too conditioned to want the sound of my cab, not the sound of a miked cab. Since I already had great guitar cabs I finally said "hell with it", bought a power amp to drive them and have been happy ever since.

FOH you will hear a miked cab regardless, the choice is whether to just mic the cab or use IRs. So I did lots of A/B testing - I set up all my presets to send pre-IR to my cab onstage and post-IR to feed FOH direct. I have to limit the number of IRs I use to keep things sane, and they have to sound ballpark similar to my real cab. I like the simplicity despite the limitation. For the most part I preferred IRs (using stock ones at the time), but it wasn't a slam dunk and I was tempted to say "hell with it" and just put a mic on the cone like always.

A lot of time passed, I read lots of RedWirez discussion but never tried them out of aversion to complexity. I'd finally settled on something simple, and I liked it. Then Ownhammer came along and I read a few rave reviews, plus I was about to do some recording so I bought the bundle. Wow, really consistently great without overwhelming options, so I worked my favorite ones into all my live presets. Listened through vocal wedges at band practice - wow again, it sounded great! At the next few gigs I stood near FOH mix position at soundcheck (wireless guitar) I'm pretty amazed.. this is a very familiar PA in a big dance hall. I can't possibly make it sound that good with a mic on my cab (which is up on stage as usual).

Next band practice I show up early and I'm A/B-ing between my cab and the Ownhammer IRs through vocal wedges.. damn.. yeah, it's good. I could actually live with that.

So now I'm considering ditching guitar cabs again, and the difference was Ownhammer.
Just out of curiosity, which Ownhammer mic/positions do you prefer?
 

Robboman

Fractal Fanatic
Just out of curiosity, which Ownhammer mic/positions do you prefer?
I like the MA-200 best, positions 3 and 4. The 57 sounds just like a 57 should, but the MA-200 sounds huge yet detailed, in a good way. I guess it aught to (not a cheap mic!) I like the Fathead too, but something sounds not 'quite' right about it to me.
 

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
When playing live it's better to have a bit more low end so it doesn't sound piercing FOH. Now... I think the stock cabs have A LOT of low end. Redwirez have less of that but a lot of middle. Ownhammers are brighter than any other IRs. So sounds pretty natural that you like stock IR's best live.

Personally... I think it's not your concern how the guitars sound FOH since you can't hear the FOH sound and there's a guy mixing your guitars in FOH. Just try to trust that guy. :)
 

hussamd

Power User
I like the MA-200 best, positions 3 and 4. The 57 sounds just like a 57 should, but the MA-200 sounds huge yet detailed, in a good way. I guess it aught to (not a cheap mic!) I like the Fathead too, but something sounds not 'quite' right about it to me.
I'm in the same boat. I got the Ownhammer 4x12 collection last weekend and I am in the process of trying them out. I found I like the Mesa cabs the best with MA-200 or Fathead mics. I was amazed how smooth the IRs sounded. I am to the point of doing away with my 4x12 cab and getting a couple of passive atomics.
 
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