Red Sound 12" GRFR.....

Sashman said:
You can’t compare a GRFR Speaker cabinet to a FRFR.
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Why not? Enough people have compared playing through FRFR to traditional guitar speakers. This is like the halfway point.

The Red Sound 12" LG12 is an older design than their newer FRFR products. It presents a frequency range that will be familiar to those who know a guitar amp experience with some extended range to allow a modeler to do its thing. (I've always certain other popular powered speakers using similar terms, but only learned the phrase GRFR recently).

GRFR stands for "Guitar Range Flat Response" it has a more limited response, most notably in the high end. It wouldn't be good for use as a vocal monitor or PA speaker, but for digital guitar it can sound great because the guitar mostly "lives" in the middle. In fact, if you're one of the many people who applies high and low cuts to your presets, you might not even notice. The sound should be describable as more focused. In comparison, I would expect your wedge to be described as having more presence.
 
Never compared, but from what @Admin M@ is saying, GRFR might be just right for those who feel modeling sounds a bit too “hi-fi” through regular FRFRs. I’d love to demo one but another speaker isn’t in the “music budget” right now. I’ll be very curious to read reviews of Fractal users. Congrats on getting one, @bobby g !
 
Admin M@ said:
Why not? Enough people have compared playing through FRFR to traditional guitar speakers. This is like the halfway point.

The Red Sound 12" LG12 is an older design than their newer FRFR products. It presents a frequency range that will be familiar to those who know a guitar amp experience with some extended range to allow a modeler to do its thing. (I've always certain other popular powered speakers using similar terms, but only learned the phrase GRFR recently).

GRFR stands for "Guitar Range Flat Response" it has a more limited response, most notably in the high end. It wouldn't be good for use as a vocal monitor or PA speaker, but for digital guitar it can sound great because the guitar mostly "lives" in the middle. In fact, if you're one of the many people who applies high and low cuts to your presets, you might not even notice. The sound should be describable as more focused. In comparison, I would expect your wedge to be described as having more presence.
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Yes it’s only the half way point.
I know the RedSound 12 LG and the Atomic and I actually own a pair of Elis 8 and MF 10 and in my opinion it you want an honest comparison, I can only say that you can’t compare them.
 
I had a pair of LG12SE, it's a version of the historic LG12 with a lighter and a little more powerful speaker, it seems to me that chronologically it's from the same era as the ELIS 8 and the FM-10 .

To return to the concept of GRFR, I always ask myself this question. Why are we always looking for FRFR when what we need is a loudspeaker with a neutral response, let's say rather one which colors as little as possible....without however needing a bandwidth which goes up to 20khz since the guitar does not need that......I understand that historically it is the FRFR systems of the sound type which offer the most neutral response, but today with the development of digital modeling systems why do the manufacturers of Guitar amps will always look for FRFR when GRFR would be perfect.
 
Lolo-G said:
I had a pair of LG12SE, it's a version of the historic LG12 with a lighter and a little more powerful speaker, it seems to me that chronologically it's from the same era as the ELIS 8 and the FM-10 .

To return to the concept of GRFR, I always ask myself this question. Why are we always looking for FRFR when what we need is a loudspeaker with a neutral response, let's say rather one which colors as little as possible....without however needing a bandwidth which goes up to 20khz since the guitar does not need that......I understand that historically it is the FRFR systems of the sound type which offer the most neutral response, but today with the development of digital modeling systems why do the manufacturers of Guitar amps will always look for FRFR when GRFR would be perfect.
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I agree with the concept, but have found on some smaller stages that it’s nice to be able to use my monitors for both guitar and vocal mixes. As a purely guitar amplification system, the CLR and NX12SMA are rock solid… but I’ve found that they can be great “whole band” monitors when needed. It’s a plus, at least for me!

But, yes, if you’re only looking for guitar monitoring, the GRFR speaker would seem less a transition from regular amps and cabs. Totally agree, and only wanted to point out I have found an upside to having the additional range in FRFR cabs. Odd thing, though, that some monitors that sound fine as vocal monitors don’t carry the guitar range as well. I know a lot of folks think all monitor/PA speakers are FRFR, or are at least designed to be, but my experience tells me that just can’t be applied universally.
 
Sashman said:
Yes it’s only the half way point.
I know the RedSound 12 LG and the Atomic and I actually own a pair of Elis 8 and MF 10 and in my opinion it you want an honest comparison, I can only say that you can’t compare them.
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If you can plug your modeler into them both and they both produce a sound, you can compare them. You shouldn't expect them to sound the same but you can damn sure compare them.
 
Deadpool_25 said:
If you can plug your modeler into them both and they both produce a sound, you can compare them. You shouldn't expect them to sound the same but you can damn sure compare them.
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Ok, maybe you can yes but it will be unfair for one of them.
Since I owned and played both, here is my unfair comparison:
The LG12 does sound honky and boxy in comparison against the Atomic.
I’m not shure if this helps.
By the way, I can plug my Modeler into my car stereo if I want but yeah…
 
One potential downside to a limited range GRFR speaker instead of a FRFR could be issues when creating presets. If you create your presets on that speaker cab, and then use the same preset live it could end up have too much treble in FOH.

One of the reasons i went from tube amps to Fractal was having more control over my own sound live, so i want the sound i hear on stage and the sound the audience hear to be as close as possible. When i used tube amps with a mic, the sound going out would often be very different from what i heard on stage.

Of course a soundtech will do some adjustments to the mix anyway, but i think having a speaker cab that is closer in sound to the FOH speakers would be an advantage.
 
PatrickWD said:
One potential downside to a limited range GRFR speaker instead of a FRFR could be issues when creating presets. If you create your presets on that speaker cab, and then use the same preset live it could end up have too much treble in FOH.

One of the reasons i went from tube amps to Fractal was having more control over my own sound live, so i want the sound i hear on stage and the sound the audience hear to be as close as possible. When i used tube amps with a mic, the sound going out would often be very different from what i heard on stage.

Of course a soundtech will do some adjustments to the mix anyway, but i think having a speaker cab that is closer in sound to the FOH speakers would be an advantage.
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Personally I adjust with headphones, this is what seems to me to be closest to the sound coming out of a FOH at high volume. and I do the rehearsals on a FOH sometimes the same as for live so it makes the work easier
 
The MF10 is a great piece of kit, but it always bothered me how the speaker seemed incapable of producing very high frequencies.

Although yes, guitar cabs are characteristically dark, you do still get SOME highs, and I just feel those highs are missing in the MF10. It's awesome as an at home speaker, but in a band I find myself missing those highs that can help cut.

If that's what GRFR is, I find it far more advantageous to have access to the whole frequency spectrum, and then just cut what you feel you don't need.
 
The Fm10 and Elis8 are both FRFR. GRFR will probably have less highs than those. I have the Elis8 I don’t miss any highs on that. They are both supposed to have a lot more range than a standard guitar cab.
 
I’ve asked myself why everyone who’s not concerned about hearing exactly what’s being sent to FOH isn’t using GRFR instead of FRFR and I think part of the answer is that I think that in order to reproduce a guitar sound you need to have a far greater range than the original speaker. Why? Because the physics of the speaker inside a FrFr or GRFR is different than your guitar speaker therefore the FRFR has to have a greater range. It’s a bit like a computer that simulates older video game consoles has to be an order of magnitude more powerful than the original console.
 
It says its a 2023 model and it says RAW P on the front bottom......this is exactly what its called...

Red Sound LG12-SE GR/FR Active Speaker 2023 - Black​

 
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