Recording Question - High Gain Brain Pain

ImNotAhab

ImNotAhab

Member
Hey Guys,
Im hoping some of the smarter gear guys here can help me out. I am wondering why when I record higher gain amps and play it back it does not sound the same as i heard it while playing it?

For context, my set up is Axe-FX II straight to studio monitors, recording via USB into Logic Pro going to the same monitors.

Sorry if this is a ridiculous question but i have not found a good answer to this. I have been recording myself for a while but was more about the creative song writing side of it. Now i am try to make things sound good and gainey geets are now my biggest hurdle. Clean guitars are not so much of an issue, probably by virtue of not being distorted.

Let the schooling begin.
 
Could be a lot of things.

Are you playing at a moderate low volume?
The guitar itself has an unplugged sound that get mixed with the amplified one while you're playing it.
 
i always thought and stated that the USB interface built into the AXE FX II is kind of useless, both in terms of latency and sound quality,
though i do not know the technical reason for this. fact is using the AXE FX II USB vs a dedicated audio interface is night and day.
i was recording throug an RME AIO PCIE card using the analog outputs of theAXE FX II into the analog inputs of the AIO and there
was absolutely no difference between the sound.

it could also have something to do with the setup of your patches and how you record them,
if you are running the AXE FX II in stereo then you should technically use a stereo track to record to,
but i highly advise not to do so. for example, if you are sing a stereo preset but recording in mono it will
of course sound very different. i would say, try a very simple basic AMP+CAB patch in mono and record in mono.
if there is still a big difference go and buy an audio interface!
 
If you are recording direct via USB your signal is different than what you are hearing out of your monitors. I know this sounds obvious, but recording direct means you aren't getting the "room" sound. No sound waves bouncing off walls, no sound interacting with the cone in your speakers, etc.

I have never had an issue recording USB direct, but really the only way to get to hear what it will sound like doing it this way is to listen through headphones, like they do in studios.

My suggestions is to copy your presets to a different location, listen to them via headphones and tweak them through your headphones until they sound the way you want. Then you will approximate what they will sound like recorded direct.
 
It could be something as simple as the fact that as you play, your guitar strings are acoustically adding treble and clarity to what's coming out of the Axe-Fx, and you think of the sum of those elements as "your tone" so when you play it back, your strings are no longer in the mix going into your ears and suddenly your tone is different.

The best way to really dial in your tone without your physical strings confusing things is to put a Looper at the beginning of the signal path, then record yourself playing for a while. After that, set the looper on repeat play, then start tweaking your sound from there.
 
Maybe this is super obvious and you've already factored this no doubt. I learned that I really had to dial down the amount of gain for recording vs what I was used to hearing back from my reference monitors....
 
Are you listening to live sound and the playback at the same volume?

Make sure you don't have software monitoring turned on in your DAW if you are monitoring directly from the Axe. That will cause a latent doubling of the live signal through the USB return channels which you will not hear on playback.
 
Soultrash said:
i always thought and stated that the USB interface built into the AXE FX II is kind of useless, both in terms of latency and sound quality
Click to expand...

This is a ridiculous statement. There is no "sound quality" associated with the USB interface. It's a digital data stream and represents the exact same data that is sent to the converters. Any "sound quality" "issues" are due to incorrect usage.
 
ImNotAhab said:
Hey Guys,
Im hoping some of the smarter gear guys here can help me out. I am wondering why when I record higher gain amps and play it back it does not sound the same as i heard it while playing it?

For context, my set up is Axe-FX II straight to studio monitors, recording via USB into Logic Pro going to the same monitors.

Sorry if this is a ridiculous question but i have not found a good answer to this. I have been recording myself for a while but was more about the creative song writing side of it. Now i am try to make things sound good and gainey geets are now my biggest hurdle. Clean guitars are not so much of an issue, probably by virtue of not being distorted.

Let the schooling begin.
Click to expand...

Is your Logic session set to 48khz? I had this issue at first, for some reason Reaper kept defaulting to 44...once i fixed that my problem stopped.
 
Ron_R said:
If you are recording direct via USB your signal is different than what you are hearing out of your monitors. I know this sounds obvious, but recording direct means you aren't getting the "room" sound. No sound waves bouncing off walls, no sound interacting with the cone in your speakers, etc.
Click to expand...

wait a minute, i think you are wrong on this!
for example if he has a recorded guitar track and plays it back on his speakers, that sit in the exact same room that he used to record the track it should sound identical, makes sense right? :)



FractalAudio said:
This is a ridiculous statement. There is no "sound quality" associated with the USB interface. It's a digital data stream and represents the exact same data that is sent to the converters. Any "sound quality" "issues" are due to incorrect usage.
Click to expand...

well, of course i do understand that USB does not influence the sound as it's only used to transmit data, however
when i switch from AXE FX II USB to my DAC USB the sound quality differs extremely. ok, i have a pretty nice DAC with
nice converters but i have also noticed a fairly big difference between the AXE FX II analog outs and the USB audio.
the analog outs connected to the analog inputs of my DAC sound insane, crystal clear, punchy...3D. when i use the AXE FX II
as an audio interface the sound is kind of washed out, dull, weak. it could be an user error, but i can't think of anything that
somebody can do wrong with this. connect the AXE FX II via USB to your computer, start up the DAW and select the AXE FX II
as the main ASIO device, record...
 
If you hear a difference between Axe USB and another interface, that interface is not flat or linear. Resampling a data stream will not improve it's quality. You can't add information that is not there to start with. You can interpolate to an extent, but that tends to soften details, not enhance them.
 
Soultrash said:
wait a minute, i think you are wrong on this!
for example if he has a recorded guitar track and plays it back on his speakers, that sit in the exact same room that he used to record the track it should sound identical, makes sense right? :)
Click to expand...

Actually no. Try it. You'll see.

The sum total of playing guitar live and hearing what it sounds like is not the same as recording it via USB and then listening to the track live. So what you're saying is that if an artist records something and then plays it live using the exact same equipment, it will sound identical? I think we can both agree that that is not an accurate statement.
 
Soultrash said:
i always thought and stated that the USB interface built into the AXE FX II is kind of useless, both in terms of latency and sound quality,
though i do not know the technical reason for this. fact is using the AXE FX II USB vs a dedicated audio interface is night and day.
i was recording throug an RME AIO PCIE card using the analog outputs of theAXE FX II into the analog inputs of the AIO and there
was absolutely no difference between the sound.

it could also have something to do with the setup of your patches and how you record them,
if you are running the AXE FX II in stereo then you should technically use a stereo track to record to,
but i highly advise not to do so. for example, if you are sing a stereo preset but recording in mono it will
of course sound very different. i would say, try a very simple basic AMP+CAB patch in mono and record in mono.
if there is still a big difference go and buy an audio interface!
Click to expand...

Heh, I use the Axe-FX USB audio with 64 samples of latency. That's useless? Never had any issues with sound quality.

I'm using Linux however.
 
Cheers for the feedback everyone!

Soultrash said:
it could also have something to do with the setup of your patches and how you record them,
if you are running the AXE FX II in stereo then you should technically use a stereo track to record to,
but i highly advise not to do so. for example, if you are sing a stereo preset but recording in mono it will
of course sound very different. i would say, try a very simple basic AMP+CAB patch in mono and record in mono.
if there is still a big difference go and buy an audio interface!
Click to expand...

Yeah i ran into this before, i was tracking stereo and was getting the worst high end angry cat hiss. when i switched to mono that helped.

mr_fender said:
Are you listening to live sound and the playback at the same volume?

Make sure you don't have software monitoring turned on in your DAW if you are monitoring directly from the Axe. That will cause a latent doubling of the live signal through the USB return channels which you will not hear on playback.
Click to expand...
Lol, also ran to this before and made sure its switched of. and yes the recording an play back are roughly the same volume.

ghostofsparta said:
Is your Logic session set to 48khz? I had this issue at first, for some reason Reaper kept defaulting to 44...once i fixed that my problem stopped.
Click to expand...
Cheers man, i am positive I'm set up for 48.

Ron_R said:
Actually no. Try it. You'll see.

The sum total of playing guitar live and hearing what it sounds like is not the same as recording it via USB and then listening to the track live. So what you're saying is that if an artist records something and then plays it live using the exact same equipment, it will sound identical? I think we can both agree that that is not an accurate statement.
Click to expand...
Well this is what i am trying to get to the bottom of. The Axe FX and Logic are going to the same monitors being played in the same room. No idea why live playing and the playback file don't sound the same.
 
I have been doing recordings for years and my sound opened up when I started recording one track and panning it about 40% to the left, then recording a second track and recording it about 40% to the right. You get this sound that is nice and full. As others have mentioned, make sure you are checking your settings so you are not hearing a lower quality return of your tone. Could be your recording software.
 
Easy way to eliminate the player part of it is to use the looper block. Record a loop on the Axe and then record the loop playing via USB. If you still hear a difference between the playing loop on the Axe and the recording of the loop via USB, then you know it's not guitar interaction related.
 
Unless you're listening at semi-loud levels, it's going to sound different because you're not taking into account the unamplified sound of the guitar strings that are commingling with the sound coming out of your monitors during recording.
 
I always use the analogue outs into a high end set of converters like my apogee symphony. Makes a world of difference, so accurate...end of story:D
 
Ron_R said:
Actually no. Try it. You'll see.

The sum total of playing guitar live and hearing what it sounds like is not the same as recording it via USB and then listening to the track live. So what you're saying is that if an artist records something and then plays it live using the exact same equipment, it will sound identical? I think we can both agree that that is not an accurate statement.
Click to expand...

if it does not sound identical then something is wrong!
of course when you play something the feeling and perceptopn can be different from
when you just listen to it but soundwise there should be no difference at all, especially when recording direct.

example:

i am sitting in front of my studio speakers with my guitar connected to the AXE FX II and i record a simple guitr riff in mono
listening through my speakers in my recording room. then i play back the recorded riff listening through the very same speakers
in the very same room sitting in the same position.

there should be no difference when recording direct!

when using a mic recording a loud guitar cab and then listening to the recorded track there will be a difference
of course because you do not hear the cab in the room on the recording but that's not the topic here, we are talking about direct recording.

@AlbertA
depends on the setup, if you are recording guitars to a backing track as most people here do it may not be a problem
but running a full DAW project with multiple tracks, plugins, real life and virtual instruments does not work for me.
 
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