Recording Question...can anyone help ???

The two things that occur to me with "track in does not equal track out" issues are mono-compatibility and comb-filtering.

My first question would be are you recording to two mono tracks or one stereo track? If two mono tracks, are you panning the channels hard left and right after recording? It's possible you've got something going on in your preset that's seriously incompatible in mono so that when you play back, you're getting bad comb filtering. Also, as pointed out by aziz, Cliff recently dropped the USB audio in/through level by 6db to prevent overloading when playing along with previously recorded tracks. It's fairly well documented that listening level effects the perceived "goodness" of an audio source.

Another thing that bugs me is your comment about latency. I use the Axe II (non-XL) as my audio interface in Logic and I have no tone loss, but there's also no latency. Everything lines up nice and clean with no post-recording sliding tracks around. The fact that you're having that problem makes me wonder if you've got some other problem going on giving you the latency issue, which is also spawning the playback issues.

Are you using the Axe AND the onboard audio as an aggregate device? I'm wondering if Logic is trying to compensate for the onboard audio and that's giving the Axe a late audio stream?

lj045637 - did you previously have a different audio device that you recorded with? It occurs to me that I've only used the Axe with Logic Pro X, and I'm wondering if perhaps a previous audio driver has left something amiss in Logic that could be causing it? Perhaps try uninstalling the old audio device if that were the case?

Rest assured, this behavior is NOT normal. Since the first time I plugged in the Axe, the tone while recording has exactly matched the recorded tone.
 
In my case I had previous projects that were recorded at 44.1khz. Utilizing the Axe (48khz) worked nicely for jamming but once I recorded I could literally visibly see the degree of waveform misalignment. Cliff stated that the auto conversion process, going in 2 directions, was probably more than could be handled without latency. I therefore started tracking Axe analog into my Saffire 40, with MixControl monitoring software. I then ordered in an RME Babyface after not wanting to tote my Saffire back and forth to the studio and use it with the TotalMix software. This basically took care of the latency issues. I will try with Axe only after I get to the point of starting new projects at 48kHz.

I track both stereo and mono depending. I might double track some accents where I will do 2 parts mono and hard pan left and right and then I might put my main part in the stereo image that the factory preset puts it in. On a wider stereo image preset I will track one part stock and maybe put a mono part in the center for an accent.

I'm not really a preset noodler. I like many of the stock presets and might tweak the verb and volume amount but that's about it. So it's not an incorrect preset. I choose a preset, via Axe Edit, bump the output up 6db, and track. Tracking waveform on the print is decent but the best way I can describe it is while I'm tracking it's like sitting in a VW bug, windows rolled up, surrounded with awesome guitar on a $5000 stereo. When I playback it's like you got out of the car and you're listening from the outside with the windows rolled down. It definitely doesn't sound crappy but it also doesn't approach what I just listened to. It's like one minute you are actually 'in' the stereo image and the next you're observing it from the outside.
 
Check your USB buffer in the utility menu of the Axe. Make sure that the meter stays in about in the middle of the bar when streaming. Adjust the USB buffer size in the I/O menu if needed. Manual says OS X systems may need higher settings than Windows. Make sure you have software monitoring turned off in Logic also.
 
mr_fender said:
... Make sure that the meter stays in about in the middle of the bar when streaming. Adjust the USB buffer size in the I/O menu if needed. Manual says OS X systems may need higher settings than Windows.
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Are you speaking about a meter on Axe or a meter on Logic? During playback or tracking?

I did set the USB buffer to it's lowest setting on the Axe when I experienced some latency.
 
On the Axe. The Status page of the Utility menu shows the USB FIFO buffer meter along with the input, output, and CPU usage meters. The buffer size setting is in the I/O menu on the Audio page. Adjust the buffer size until the USB meter stays in the middle when streaming to Logic. Also, if you monitor direct from the Axe, playback latency is a non issue. Logic will compensate timing of any recorded tracks automatically. Leave software monitoring in Logic turned off.
 
I don't have the manual in front of me, but it sounds like you may be set up for re-amping and you're feeding the guitar tone back through the amp chain. That would definitely explain the collapse of the stereo field, since the amp block is mono. Try adding a delay after you record with none and see if the playback has a delay on it. If so, you need to change the USB settings on the Axe to just monitor and not re-amp.
 
mwd said:
In my case I had previous projects that were recorded at 44.1khz. Utilizing the Axe (48khz) worked nicely for jamming but once I recorded I could literally visibly see the degree of waveform misalignment. Cliff stated that the auto conversion process, going in 2 directions, was probably more than could be handled without latency. I therefore started tracking Axe analog into my Saffire 40, with MixControl monitoring software. I then ordered in an RME Babyface after not wanting to tote my Saffire back and forth to the studio and use it with the TotalMix software. This basically took care of the latency issues. I will try with Axe only after I get to the point of starting new projects at 48kHz.

I track both stereo and mono depending. I might double track some accents where I will do 2 parts mono and hard pan left and right and then I might put my main part in the stereo image that the factory preset puts it in. On a wider stereo image preset I will track one part stock and maybe put a mono part in the center for an accent.

I'm not really a preset noodler. I like many of the stock presets and might tweak the verb and volume amount but that's about it. So it's not an incorrect preset. I choose a preset, via Axe Edit, bump the output up 6db, and track. Tracking waveform on the print is decent but the best way I can describe it is while I'm tracking it's like sitting in a VW bug, windows rolled up, surrounded with awesome guitar on a $5000 stereo. When I playback it's like you got out of the car and you're listening from the outside with the windows rolled down. It definitely doesn't sound crappy but it also doesn't approach what I just listened to. It's like one minute you are actually 'in' the stereo image and the next you're observing it from the outside.
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I re-recorded again...this time I took one of the latest user presets in fw17.03 tweaked it to my taste. It was a Mono preset and recorded the Riff twice (left and right panned). The tone is much better now and by far closer to the tone I hear when playing. But the Sound looses in punch and gains treble.
Is there a way to compensate this? Don't won't to modify the preset as it sounds perfect now. Are you using channel strips in logic to gain more punch? If yes, which and with which settings? Or Do you use post Plug-ins?

PS: previous recording was recorded in stereo with a stereo track...it seems it is bettet to stick with L/R panned mono tracks...so you agree?
 
If you've got your input and output sliders in Logic set to unity gain (0db), there should be no difference in the live and recorded tones. Unless the sample rates don't match, Logic should not be resampling or changing the signal at all.

Edit: I forgot about the recent 6db reduction in the USB return feed. With everything set to unity gain, the playback should be 6db quieter but otherwise identical. You can compensate by setting the Master output fader in Logic to +6db.
 
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mr_fender said:
... Also, if you monitor direct from the Axe, playback latency is a non issue.
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If the sample rates matched I would agree with this but my Axe was on 48 and my project was at 44.1. It worked due to conversions but the track I recorded was literally 1/8" to the right of the beat. Made me sea sick listening to it...lol. I had to slide it to the left to align. I'm checking the settings to your specs when I get home this evening.
 
Oh yeah. Conversion on the fly causes huge latency. Sample rates have to match for best performance. Logic should let you convert your project and stems to 48kHz. I've got some old Sonar projects that I need to convert and import into Reaper for the same reasons. It's kind of a pain, but once on 48kHz everything works like a charm.
 
Yep I could export them at 48 and reimport but what a pain. At the moment this Babyface is letting me finish up my projects at 44.1 then onwards and upwards to 48kHz and Logic X. Maybe...lol.
 
mwd said:
Yep I could export them at 48 and reimport but what a pain. At the moment this Babyface is letting me finish up my projects at 44.1 then onwards and upwards to 48kHz and Logic X. Maybe...lol.
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With what kind of cables are your monitors connected to your interface?
 
Presently I'm not using my A7X monitors, but rather tracking my guitar parts with Senn HD650 headphones. So I am direct out of Axe into Babyface and out the Babyface headphone out. Or Saffire 40 if I need to track more than 2 parts simultaneously which I do on some acoustic guitar parts.
 
mwd said:
Presently I'm not using my A7X monitors, but rather tracking my guitar parts with Senn HD650 headphones. So I am direct out of Axe into Babyface and out the Babyface headphone out. Or Saffire 40 if I need to track more than 2 parts simultaneously which I do on some acoustic guitar parts.
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Axe connected with xlr cables to the babyface?
 
lj045637 said:
Thanks, mwd...I needed this...now I feel relieved that I am not the only one :)

Dear power users...how can u manage to record hudge sounding guitar sounds... Please reveal the secrets:)
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Are you able to track and mix conventional amps / cabs?

There definitely is some skill required to dial in an AxeFx preset, but simple AMP -> CAB presets with almost all defaults in the AxeFx track really true to a real amp / cab setup.

In my experience, getting huge guitar sounds is more about mixing and using the DAW than something special about the Fractal.

I recommend tracking with really simple AMP -> CAB presets created from scratch. Then mix it in the box just like you would any other guitar tracks.
 
lj045637 said:
Axe connected with xlr cables to the babyface?
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Yes. The Babyface comes with a breakout cable. 2 of the connectors are XLR so I go direct to Axe. Previously I went direct to Axe with 2 12" handmade XLR cables.

I used to not have this problem. Previous setups was Logic 9 on 10.6 Snow Leopard via Tascam US428 using my Axe Ultra analog. iMac had 8GB memory 1TB drive. No issues tracking.

What I have changed: I upgraded the memory on my 2009 iMac to 32GB and the hard drive to 3TB. Bought a new Axe XL, upgraded my OS to Mavericks, then to Yosemite which crapped out my 15 year old Tascam. Started using one of my Saffire 40 interfaces and got a new Babyface interface for portability.

Somewhere between my old setup and new setup Logic started snagging for lack of a better term. Like it has to play catch up. Sometimes I will press spacebar to stop and it keeps going or I will press save and the dropdown doesn't immediately go down. I thought it was due to the number of plugins I was using but I am starting to wonder. My 2009 iMac specs state that the I7 on this rig will support 16GB of memory but OWC (memory place) states that it supports 32GB just fine. It does recognize it and I have no issues with any other program. However other programs are not as intensive as audio recording.

I recorded an acoustic track last night at 80BPM and literally had to move the stem a full beat to the left. Something going on here outside of an Axe latency issue.
 
Sounds like you've got a timing issue between Logic and the Axe. Maybe try reinstalling the USB drivers and resetting all of your device settings in Logic. It should be able to automatically compensate for any existing playback latency and keep the recorded track perfectly synced up with any existing tracks.
 
mwd said:
Yes. The Babyface comes with a breakout cable. 2 of the connectors are XLR so I go direct to Axe. Previously I went direct to Axe with 2 12" handmade XLR cables.

I used to not have this problem. Previous setups was Logic 9 on 10.6 Snow Leopard via Tascam US428 using my Axe Ultra analog. iMac had 8GB memory 1TB drive. No issues tracking.

What I have changed: I upgraded the memory on my 2009 iMac to 32GB and the hard drive to 3TB. Bought a new Axe XL, upgraded my OS to Mavericks, then to Yosemite which crapped out my 15 year old Tascam. Started using one of my Saffire 40 interfaces and got a new Babyface interface for portability.

Somewhere between my old setup and new setup Logic started snagging for lack of a better term. Like it has to play catch up. Sometimes I will press spacebar to stop and it keeps going or I will press save and the dropdown doesn't immediately go down. I thought it was due to the number of plugins I was using but I am starting to wonder. My 2009 iMac specs state that the I7 on this rig will support 16GB of memory but OWC (memory place) states that it supports 32GB just fine. It does recognize it and I have no issues with any other program. However other programs are not as intensive as audio recording.

I recorded an acoustic track last night at 80BPM and literally had to move the stem a full beat to the left. Something going on here outside of an Axe latency issue.
Click to expand...

Try to perform a system reset in the axe and load the clean sysex file from the fas support homepage...this helped in my case....tone got better.
 
I would agree with both of you but I was running 2 mics into my Saffire 40 to track some acoustic while my Axe was powered off on my record desk when this happened yesterday. I am coming to the conclusion it's a memory or Mavericks/Yosemite issue vs Logic.
 
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