FM3 Recording guitars, FM3 with Neve 1073DPA preamp a good idea?

[Benedicto]

This might seem dumb as this preamp isn't really meant for guitars as I understand it, but here goes:

I have access to a Neve 1073 DPA hardware preamp, and also have an Apogee Element 48 soundcard. Being unfamiliar with the 4 cables method, and also needing to record a DI track simultaneously, I did the following:

• plugged my guitar into a stereo DI box's input 1
• Sent DI box output 1 into soundcard input 3 to get the DI signal.
• Plugged a short cable between the through and input 2 of the DI to have signal coming out of its output 2
• Ran that second DI box output to the input of the FM3.
• Then stereo output 1 of the FM3 into the 2 channels of the Neve using XLR cables
• Line out of the Neve into into the soundcard's input 1&2
• Soundcard into the DAW

I realize this is not the proper position for a preamp, however with the Neve gain settings at basically zero, it did give me a nice warmth and I felt it added something I liked to my wet signal. "If it sounds good it's good", so I just went with it for that particular recording session.

However, I would like to gain more knowledge into what a more standard signal chain would look like, hence a few questions:

1. Is what I did actually dumb or is it valid, from a "proper" technical standpoint?
2. Is that particular preamp even recommended for recording guitars?
3. If I wanted to put it before the amp (as I understand should be the right way to do it), is my only option just 4 cables method, and I will still have to use the built-in modeled preamp of the FM3?
4. I need to record a DI track, while still wanting to go through the Neve for wet signal, so can't plug the FM3 direct into the computer via USB, how do I do that if the Neve is before the modeled amp?
5. Additionally, I've read a few threads on how connecting the FM3 via usb and not having to use converters is better in theory. Any personal experience someone would like to share with this? I also intend to try this method but I'm a little put-off by the latency issue I'll have to deal with on top of my current routing ordeal. Would be awesome to hear some feedback on this from more experienced people.

Thanks a bunch in advance!

 

[GlennO]

If it sounds good, then it is good. I'm not sure the DI box serves any useful purpose in that setup though. Regarding USB, there's no reason you can't connect the FM3 to the computer to record a DI and wet via USB. Fewer A/D/A conversions, for example by using a digital connection to your computer, is better for various reasons, including fidelity, latency, noise, and level balancing. And putting the preamp at an analog output like that, instead of between the guitar and the A/D converter, adds a couple of unnecessary conversions.

 

[Diego]

This:

If it sounds good, then it is good

In audio engineering some great album wouldn’t have been recorded without fantasy (and sometimes mistakes) that later become standards so don’t be shy to try and use your ears. Just my 2c…

 

[Benedicto]

If it sounds good, then it is good. I'm not sure the DI box serves any useful purpose in that setup though. Regarding USB, there's no reason you can't connect the FM3 to the computer to record a DI and wet via USB. Fewer A/D/A conversions, for example by using a digital connection to your computer, is better for various reasons, including fidelity, latency, noise, and level balancing. And putting the preamp at an analog output like that, instead of between the guitar and the A/D converter, adds a couple of unnecessary conversions.

About the DI box, not having used the usb method to reach the DAW, it seemed to be my only option to record a DI and wet signal simultaneously. Is there another simpler way I could achieve this, while still keeping the preamp and soundcard in the chain? (I should maybe specify that in my original post by dry signal I mean straight out of the guitar, not dry as in after the amps without post effects.)

Regarding connecting via usb, I'm also considering it and will running a trial a little later today. I'm bummed about not using the Neve tho, as it did sound better with it, but I will hear how it sounds when not having to convert my signal.

As for your last sentence I'm not sure I understand. Right now the wet signal chain is Guitar-->DI box-->FM3-->Preamp-->Soundcard-->DAW. So my analog signal comes out of the FM3 into the analog preamp and is then sent to the soundcard for a/d conversion. So the preamp is between the guitar and a/d converter. Or am I missing something?

thank you for taking the time to answer it's appreciated.

 

[GlennO]

That seems needlessly complicated. I would do this:
guitar->preamp->fm3->usb->computer

Or if you want to exclude the Neve preamp from the DI, put it in an effects loop:
guitar->fm3->preamp->fm3->usb->computer

That allows you to record both a DI and a wet that includes the preamp. But either way, there is no need for a DI box.

 

[Benedicto]

That seems needlessly complicated. I would do this:
guitar->preamp->fm3->usb->computer

Or if you want to exclude the Neve preamp from the DI, put it in an effects loop:
guitar->fm3->preamp->fm3->usb->computer

That allows you to record both a DI and a wet that includes the preamp. But either way, there is no need for a DI box.

Ah I see what you mean. The need for a DI comes from the fact that the Neve only has mic and line entries, so I need to bring my instrument level signal up to line before entering it.

Your second option is interesting, I'm looking in to it.

thanks

 

[GlennO]

The 2nd option will work fine, but I believe that preamp has a high impedance input and adjustable gain. That means you can plug a guitar directly into it without a DI box. In other words, the first option will also work fine.

 

[Benedicto]

The 2nd option will work fine, but I believe that preamp has a high impedance input and adjustable gain. That means you can plug a guitar directly into it without a DI box. In other words, the first option will also work fine.

Indeed it does. While I’m at it, should I use TS or TRS cables to put the preamp in the loop?