Recording FM9 + Apollo Twin USB on Windows

[likethehotels]

I've been trying to do my research and search before posting, but still haven't been able to find the answers I need.
I can't be the only one dealing with this, so I'm hoping someone on this forum can help.

I finally got my waitlist invitation for the FM9 Turbo and ordered it. Now I want to make sure I have everything I need to record at home with both my FM9 as well as my interface. Here's my setup:

PC: Windows 10 with plenty of ram and CPU
DAW: Ableton 11 Suite
Interface: Apollo Twin USB

I'd like to get other user's experience as to the best way to connect my FM9 to my computer alongside my Apollo Twin USB.
I know analog is always an option, but I'm trying to avoid unnecessary conversion.
Since I have to run a USB cable from the FM9 to the PC in order to use FM9 Edit, I initially wanted to record USB audio.
That was until I realized that Windows cannot create an aggregate device, so I would have to disconnect my monitors from the FM9 and connect them to my Apollo any time I want to record through the Apollo.
It looks like the only solution here is ASIO4ALL. If someone else here has had good experience with it, I'd be interested in learning the right configuration, but all my experiences in the past with ASIO4ALL resulted in latency and buggy issues with the UA Console drivers disconnecting from the Apollo. Maybe someone out there is using it successfully (and if you are, please let me know how), but as of this moment, that seems like a dead-end. This is where I really start to understand the benefits of Macs and their "Core Audio."

Okay, then. Maybe that's what SPDIF is here for. I have three main concerns here:
1. What is the appropriate coax to optical converter here? Will I experience any latency with the options on Amazon? Any recommended converters?
2. Do I lose the ability to record a DI alongside a stereo signal? Not a dealbreaker, but nice to know what the limitations are to this.
3. Do I lose the ability to digitally re-amp through the FM9? The Apollo doesn't support SPDIF out, so I suspect that's the case. Again, not a dealbreaker, but just nice to know. Perhaps for reamping, I'll use analog and just have an unavoidable extra conversion.

Lastly, am I correct in assuming the editor software can run at the same as I'm recording through the FM9? No limitations there, right?

I can't be the only one with these questions, but I've been researching for 2.5 hrs and still can't quite find the right answers.
So, anyhow, this is my first post. Thanks for your help!

 

[elvis]

I had a similar concern with a mac studio, FM9 and Apogee Duet 3. I wound up using the FM9 via USB whenever I play guitar, and the Duet for any non-guitar-playing studio stuff.

I added a monitor switch box. It is so easy to switch back and forth that I hardly notice. Allows me also to switch between different monitors pairs (I have two different brands of monitor to keep me honest, plus IEMs for when I want to be silent), plus switching between FM9 and Duet.

Amazon product ASIN B00OY0TBMA

 

[GlennO]

I can't be the only one with these questions, but I've been researching for 2.5 hrs and still can't quite find the right answers.
So, anyhow, this is my first post. Thanks for your help!

You'll find instructions here on how to configure your rig so you can record DI and do re-amping:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-for-the-recording-musician.177592/

Pretty much any rca to toslink adapter for spdif to your Apollo you find on Amazon will work fine. Because it's a digital to digital conversion, you generally don't have to worry about quality issues. However, if your Apollo lacks spdif out (most Apollo models have in and out), that will be an issue and you'll have to resort to analog. However, see the guide above...you may not need to connect via your Apollo at all and USB may work fine. Even if you do need the Apollo, do you need it and the FM9 simultaneously? If not, as Elvis says, a switch might solve your problem. Alternatively, if you're open to the idea, maybe consider a different audio interface, one that has digital in and out.

Yes, you can run the editor while recording. No, I have never been able to get an aggregate working with ASIO4All. That's why the recording guide says aggregates are just for Mac users.

 

[DrGreencock]

I also run a Windows 10 PC and discovered a kind of "out of the box" way to keep the FM9 (and Helix previously) connected via USB for the editor, but still keep my monitors connected to my interface (Steinberg UR28M) and not have to rejig everything.

When I practice at my computer or jam along to stuff, the interface is feeding the monitors as normal, and I use the SPDIF out on the FM9 going into the interface. Both are connected to my PC via USB so I can use FM9-Edit. In the DAW, the audio device is set to the FM9 so it is using FM9 USB for all in/out audio/reamping/DAW playback,

The end result is my Steinberg interface is really the volume for my monitors, but the FM9 is the brains of the audio routing and is just passing 100% of the audio output (including playback) through the SPDIF out.

I've tested this for USB reamping and it worked perfectly. Maybe I'm missing something but it does sound to me like you want to do exactly what I'm doing now!

 

[GlennO]

I've tested this for USB reamping and it worked perfectly. Maybe I'm missing something but it does sound to me like you want to do exactly what I'm doing now!

I don't think you're missing anything. But, usually one uses an audio interface because you need more inputs to your DAW. See configurations 4 and 5 in the recording guide. Presumably that's why the OP is using an Apollo. Otherwise, configurations 1 or 2 are generally used. I think what you're describing is a variation on #2 where an audio interface is substituted for the mixer. That might make sense in cases where the D/A converter in the computer is inadequate. In that situation, you're just using spdif for the monitor signal, so using analog out would accomplish the same thing (a single D/A conversion on the way to the monitor speakers) without having to worry about clocking issues. Anyway, I think this illustrates the point that there are many ways to solve these kinds of problems.

 

[DrGreencock]

I don't think you're missing anything. But, usually one uses an audio interface because you need more inputs to your DAW. See configurations 4 and 5 in the recording guide. Presumably that's why the OP is using an Apollo. Otherwise, configurations 1 or 2 are generally used. I think what you're describing is a variation on #2 where an audio interface is substituted for the mixer. That might make sense in cases where the D/A converter in the computer is inadequate. In that situation, you're just using spdif for the monitor signal, so using analog out would accomplish the same thing (a single D/A conversion on the way to the monitor speakers) without having to worry about clocking issues. Anyway, I think this illustrates the point that there are many ways to solve these kinds of problems.

Gotcha - I assume like a lot of folks wanting to track at home, this should do the trick. If all the OP has is an Apollo Twin then using SPDIF will still maximize I/O in that lightweight setup right?

If more inputs are needed, it's time to level up the interface IMO. I went from a Scarlett 2i2 to my current interface which is 4x4 so I could have multiple mics on a cab, plus a DI or two, but I've only used that a handful of times in 4 years. The goal of being able to take advantage of USB options is solved for me, and hopefully @likethehotels too

 

[GlennO]

Gotcha - I assume like a lot of folks wanting to track at home, this should do the trick. If all the OP has is an Apollo Twin then using SPDIF will still maximize I/O in that lightweight setup right?

Configuration #2? I'd guess #1, #4, or #5 are probably more popular than #2. #1 for simple cases where you don't need the extra input and #4 or #5 for more complex cases where you do.

 

[likethehotels]

I feel like the recording guide doesn't really take into account interfaces that lack an optical out, so I'm now running into some issues I'm hoping I can solve with the community's help.

I'm using a little converter box from amazon.
Cheap little thing: Converter

The FM9 has the word clock set to internal.
The Apollo has the bitrate set to 48kHz and the clock source set to SPDIF.
However, when I do this, the clock source panel flashes red as if it's not receiving the clock. (See image)
I get no audio.
If I turn the apollo's clock to internal, I get the typical popping mess, and I do hear some audio through the pops, so the audio is getting there, it's just an issue with the clock.
Is it possible the converter box I got can't pass the clock through?

I've messed with SR convert and setting both to internal, but I get the same popping.
Could really use a hand here.

Thanks!

 

[GlennO]

That should work. There's no clock signal in spdif to be transmitted through the adapter. The clock is inferred from the audio signal. Maybe a bad cable?

Just to double check since I don't think you've said, why are you sending the FM9 output through the Twin instead of using usb?