Reamping slightly out of sync

strabes said:
Another option is to use SPDIF to record the wet and an analog output to record the dry into a separate input on your interface.
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Funny, I was just thinking about doing that! Thanks for confirming @strabes

To be clear, I don't want to sound like I'm complaining here. My experience with Fractal Audio and the AF3 has been absolutely incredible. I've had nothing but positive things to say since I started using Fractal Audio products. This is a life changing piece of equipment for a musician and it has been truly inspiring. I'm just puzzled why something like latency over USB isn't being reported correctly to my DAW since this device does everything else with such precision. I was reading an article about Latency by Focusrite and they say that audio interfaces are responsible for reporting latency to recording software. From searches on the forums and Google I see this has been a reported issue by Fractal users for many years now. Has Fractal Audio had anything to say about it? I'm just wondering if it's something they can fix or is it a limitation of hardware? Either way I'd love to hear a response from them on it just so that I can understand where they stand. Even if I don't like the response. ;)
 
Rekster said:
I ended up reconnecting a Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, it has SPDIF in and out. But SPDIF only carries 2 channels so I can't see how I can pass through both wet and dry signals from the AF3?

But the wet is recording perfectly in sync now, so it's definitely the AF3 that isn't reporting latency correctly to the DAW. I just can't reamp now.

So are my only options to record perfectly in sync to use my Clarett but by doing so I can only record wet? And if I want to record both wet/dry for reamping I'm at the mercy of the latency issue from the AF3?

This is so frustrating.
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See the guide I wrote which shows how to do recording with the AxeFX. It includes a description of a configuration where you can use an audio interface and do re-amping like you want to do:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axefx-for-the-recording-musician.177592/
 
GlennO said:
See the guide I wrote which shows how to do recording with the AxeFX. It includes a description of a configuration where you can use an audio interface and do re-amping like you want to do:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axefx-for-the-recording-musician.177592/
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I just set up everything as per #5 in your guide and started tracking all over again. (guitar plugged into Focusrite interface rather than AF3, S/PDIF to/from AF3). Everything is recording perfectly now, no latency and no worrying about offsetting tracks to be in sync with the song. Plus I can record both wet and dry still. I swear I thought I was losing my mind for the longest time. I'd track everything perfectly and things always felt slightly off to me. It was especially noticeable on heavily rhythmic parts. I can finally focus on creativity and get this song recorded now! Thanks so much for your help and excellent guide.
 
Rekster said:
I'm experimenting with reamping some guitar tracks on a song I recorded a while back. I made sure to record dry at the same time so that I'd be able to do this. My issue is that the reamped tracks seem just slightly out of sync with the rest of the song. Extremely close, but just off enough to not sound right. Any suggestions? This song was originally recorded at 44.1kHz, is there any chance reamping will cause this issue due to the AF3 being 48kHz? Does that make any sense? Just trying to understand what's going on here... Thanks all.
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44.1kHz is why. Need to record in 48kHz.

You can do a conversion, but it could be hard (if not impossible) to match up.
 
Rekster said:
I just set up everything as per #5 in your guide and started tracking all over again. (guitar plugged into Focusrite interface rather than AF3, S/PDIF to/from AF3). Everything is recording perfectly now, no latency and no worrying about offsetting tracks to be in sync with the song. Plus I can record both wet and dry still. I swear I thought I was losing my mind for the longest time. I'd track everything perfectly and things always felt slightly off to me. It was especially noticeable on heavily rhythmic parts. I can finally focus on creativity and get this song recorded now! Thanks so much for your help and excellent guide.
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Glad it worked out. This stuff is not simple.

Out of curiosity though, how far was it off when you used the "DAW preference" approach instead of an audio interface? That should have been pretty close.
 
siin82 said:
I've had issue with this when I get recordings from singers (not with Axe Fx).
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Without knowing details, it's hard to say what caused your problem, but I'm just pointing out that the problem this thread is about is unrelated to sample rates. In any case, check out the guide I mentioned above for a discussion of the AxeFX and sample rates.
 
siin82 said:
I've had issue with this when I get recordings from singers (not with Axe Fx).
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That's the point, I'm working with different musicians and producers and the incoming projects are useing sample rates from 44,1 to 96 kHz. That's why I use an RME Interface (UCX) and SSL-Six as monitor controller. I'm born 1955 and grow up with the analog days (reel and so on) and without a mixing console even a small one. . . . .you know. :)
 
jamesie said:
That's the point, I'm working with different musicians and producers and the incoming projects are useing sample rates from 44,1 to 96 kHz. That's why I use an RME Interface (UCX) and SSL-Six as monitor controller. I'm born 1955 and grow up with the analog days (reel and so on) and without a mixing console even a small one. . . . .you know. :)
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I would humbly disagree whether that's the point. Sample rates are unrelated to the topic this thread is about. Sample rates and the AxeFX are an interesting topic, but an unrelated one. See the recording guide I mentioned above for a discussion about the AxeFX and sample rates.
 
GlennO said:
Glad it worked out. This stuff is not simple.

Out of curiosity though, how far was it off when you used the "DAW preference" approach instead of an audio interface? That should have been pretty close.
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It got closer by setting an offset, but it still didn't seem perfect to me. Plus I didn't want to keep fiddling around with it. Now using the Focusrite as the audio interface everything just lines up instantly and I'm dead on the beat with all guitar parts. I'm retracking everything at this point, bit of a pain but it's going very fast at least.
 
GlennO said:
I would humbly disagree whether that's the point. Sample rates are unrelated to the topic this thread is about. Sample rates and the AxeFX are an interesting topic, but an unrelated one. See the recording guide I mentioned above for a discussion about the AxeFX and sample rates.
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I know, sorry
 
Rekster said:
I just rebooted the computer and ran the same test and it's coming back with +485 instead of +543 for some reason. So yes you are correct, I suppose I'll need to do the latency test before every session. More to keep track of.. That also means the adjustments I was doing early aren't necessarily accurate.

I'd really like to be able to record without having to worry about this stuff, it's a real pain especially if the latency isn't consistent. Is this a Logic Pro / AF3 issue more than anything else? In other words, is it not an issue with other DAWs?
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Does the project you load have plugins with delay compensation?

Reaper calls it "PDC", not sure what it is called in Logic (or anything else) though. Any time I load a project in Reaper with these types of plugins it screws up the value.

I've tested adding 100s of plugins that don't have PDC and the offset will stay good. When I add PDC plugins it will become unstable. Even after removing or bypassing the PDC plugins, the offset is still FUBAR.

It's also weird that some users (GlennO in this thread) report that this does not happen for them.
Edit: @GlennO mentioned below that he tested the PDC issue in Cubase and the offset value remains stable (as it should). While we have limited data points, it seems that both Reaper and Logic exhibit issues with the latency offset value changing while Cubase does not.
 
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sixtystring said:
It's also weird that some users (GlennO in this thread) report that this does not happen for them.
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Just to clarify, I tested PDC in Cubase, not Reaper. I was just demonstrating that, if working properly, PDC won't have any effect on the latency compensation. If there's a PDC bug in Reaper, then that could make it seem like the manual latency preference workaround isn't working. I would expect that to cause a problem with any audio interface though, not just an AxeFX.
 
@GlennO thanks for this info. I edited my comment to add clarity.

Guess I need to see how easy it is to migrate projects from Reaper to Cubase...

I'm still incredibly interested to get more input from other users to see if this problem exists only with Reaper & Logic.
 
FYI, the compensation works fine for me in Logic after setting the recording delay preference. I don't recall if I've ever seen a problem in Reaper, but it definitely works fine in Logic for me.
 
GlennO said:
FYI, the compensation works fine for me in Logic after setting the recording delay preference. I don't recall if I've ever seen a problem in Reaper, but it definitely works fine in Logic for me.
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I really appreciate your insight and want to thank you for the troubleshooting. I do want to be sure that we're on the same page though...

Just for transparency, I only did a few tests of this in Reaper...but I could add hundreds of non-PDC plugins and the offset would stay GOOD. When I started adding PDC plugins the offset would go BAD and STAY bad. What I mean by that, is even if I remove the PDC plugins, the value would stay BAD in the current project and even for "blank" projects that worked prior to the PDC plugins project.

Just want to 100% confirm, you adding a bunch of PDC plugins when testing the stability of the offset value?
 
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