Really loud delay spill when switching presets- how to fix?

Philip

Philip

Inspired
Hey all. I am pretty sure that this was brought up once before, but can't remember what the issue was, or seem to be able to find it via search.

About 90% of my patches have delay in them. I use spill. On some of them, when I switch from one preset to another, the spilled delay is VERY loud for about half of a second when I change programs. Can anyone remember from the top of their head what causes this?

Thanks,

Phil
 
I had this, in fact when I switched patches the spillover delay caused the patch to clip, so I just turned it off.
 
I seem to get this when i go from a high gain patch to a clean one .... It's a bit unpractical generally, so i was going to switch 'delay spillover' off, but i'm going to use it as a one off effect on a recording session i have coming up, cos it sounds pretty intense i reckon ... !?
 
I have had the same problem for months, and I have not been able to figure it out. In my case, it also depends on the patch I switch from... so for example, if I switch from patch A to patch B, I get the super loud delay for a moment, but if I switch from patch C to patch B, I don't (even though patch A and C are very similar, same gain level, etc.). I gave up on it, and declared spillover to be virtually unusable. If one day someone proves me wrong, I will be happy.
 
Yeah, same here... Stopped using it because for me it is unusable but i can deal with that.
What does annoy me though is that when switching to presets that use crystals or plex delays i get sudden "bursts" of sound even with spillover off. :shock:
 
A couple of things can cause this.

The spillover just keeps the delay and reverb buffers from being cleared on patch change.

This means whatever signal is in the buffer gets input into the next patch. So if the delay is after a distorted amp in the first patch, it will be that distorted sound that carries over. If the second delay is a lot bigger, it will take that signal from the buffer and apply it to the delay in the second one. This can make what was a short delay into a big and long echo if the patc you are going to hand a lot of repeats or different signal level.

The routing of the delay blocks can cause this as well. If the routing of the delay blocks are radically different (parallel to serial , before/after amp, etc.) you can get signal level mismatches. The buffered signal only gets the processing after the delay block, not all the stuff before. The same is true with the reverb.

To get the delay and reverb spillover to function completely transparently. You need separate delay and reverbs for the spillover.
This means if you use delay and reverb 1 in the originating patch, it spills over to delay 1 and reverb 1 in the new patch. It also takes on the parameters of the setting of the new patch, which can be radically different. So, to keep the spillover delay and reverb from taking on the characteristics of the new day, you have to do a lot of planning.

You would place the delay and reverb 1 (w/ the exact same settings as the preset you are switching from) at the end of the matrix on it own row with no connections to their input. You would use delay and reverb 2 in the second patch.

In this way, when you switch patches delay and reverb 1 are allowed to fade out to silence w/ no further input from the next patch.

You really have to have your songs planned out in advance this way. It is practical for many setups, others it makes good sense. It is getting harder to do as some of the effects get more processor intensive w/ updates. But the way the Axe-fx is configured the only way to have it work w/o this sort of routing would be to dedicate one of the delay and reverb blocks solely for reverb and not have it available to the user.

For me this is not practical. I try to keep my songs down to one patch where ever I can and have spillover off.

Here is how the second patch might look if you set it up like described above.
Edit: These are 2 examples of how you can route the second patch.
 

Attachments

  • spill1.jpg
    58.5 KB · Views: 243
  • spill2.jpg
    72.7 KB · Views: 246
GuitarDojo said:
@Java
In your illustration, this would have to be done in order correct. Spill1 to Spill2?
Click to expand...

No, those photos are both the 2nd patch. It is just 2 different examples of going about it (parallel, serial).

The important part is the the isolated blocks of delay and reverb be exactly the same as the patch you are coming from. If it was delay 1 in the previous patch, it need to be delay 1 in the second. The settings also should be the same.
 
Interesting ... Just so I can understand what your ariving at, The way you have the matrix setup with respect to the two delay blocks. The Delay that is in the signal chain is the one that will be cut off when you change patches and the Delay block that is by it's self well fade off once you on the new patch? I don't quite follow how that works if the delay block is not connected in the signal chain.
 
Sixstring said:
Interesting ... Just so I can understand what your ariving at, The way you have the matrix setup with respect to the two delay blocks. The Delay that is in the signal chain is the one that will be cut off when you change patches and the Delay block that is by it's self well fade off once you on the new patch? I don't quite follow how that works if the delay block is not connected in the signal chain.
Click to expand...

No, The one in the signal chain (delay 2) will not be cut off because it didn't exist in the first place. Yes, the one not in the signal chain will fade off naturally.

the delay that is not in the signal chain (delay 1) will get its signal from the delay 1 buffer. All the spillover does is NOT clear the delay buffer on a preset change.
Each delay (delay 1, delay 2) has it's own buffer. So in the new patch delay1 will die out naturally. Delay 2 will get it input from the signal chain.
 
javajunkie said:
Sixstring said:
Interesting ... Just so I can understand what your ariving at, The way you have the matrix setup with respect to the two delay blocks. The Delay that is in the signal chain is the one that will be cut off when you change patches and the Delay block that is by it's self well fade off once you on the new patch? I don't quite follow how that works if the delay block is not connected in the signal chain.
Click to expand...

No, The one in the signal chain (delay 2) will not be cut off because it didn't exist in the first place. Yes, the one not in the signal chain will fade off naturally.

the delay that is not in the signal chain (delay 1) will get its signal from the delay 1 buffer. All the spillover does is NOT clear the delay buffer on a preset change.
Each delay (delay 1, delay 2) has it's own buffer. So in the new patch delay1 will die out naturally. Delay 2 will get it input from the signal chain.
Click to expand...

Understood, I did not understand the delay buffer was a factor. Thanks for the clarification java.
 
Hi guys,

I have most of my patches using Delay 1 as my main delay line. I noticed awhile back that if I have my Cab block in different spots. The spill can get kind of funky. Going from a patch wether it be clean or dirty. If I have a the cab after the delay and then go to patch with the cab before delay then I get weirdness some times loud weirdness.

I have sets of patches for different band situations that all have the cab either before or another set with cab after. Also I have delay 1 always in parallel. Delay 2 always in series. Can be before or after. The Plex delay and others vary as to where and how i place them. this gives me some continuity.

The Reverb I don't have much experience with, I only use it for one patch.

I hope that helps and not confuses. :)

Larry
 
javajunkie said:
For me this is not practical. I try to keep my songs down to one patch where ever I can and have spillover off.
Click to expand...

But with spillover off you can't use the looper while switching patches right?
 
Right,

It is important to remember what the delay spill is doing. It takes the signal the delay gets and carries that over (via the delay buffer) to the next patch.

Now, if that delay was the first delay in the chain, it captures a non amplified sound and the delay in the spilled over patch will process that.
If it was after the amp/cab it will capture the amplified signal and pass that.

So if your first patch is after the amp/cab and the spilled over delay is before the amp and cab you will take that amplified signal in the buffer send it to the delay block in the spillover patch where it gets amplified again by the spilled over patches amp and cab.

Also, the delay buffer will only capture the effects that are before it not after.
 
Ringleader said:
javajunkie said:
For me this is not practical. I try to keep my songs down to one patch where ever I can and have spillover off.
Click to expand...

But with spillover off you can't use the looper while switching patches right?
Click to expand...

I believe you are correct. I am not presently using the looper and would go with a dedicated one if I do.
 
I am right in assuming the MultiTap and MegaTap Delay blocks are not included in the Delay / Reverb Spillover. Is that correct?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom