Real vintage sounding les paul through FM3

Wish they had a 14 day trial for 59 les Paul’s 🤔
When I first started to post to this thread I had made an attempt at humor and remarked about all my 59’ Les Pauls are presently loaned to the kids in the neighborhood so I can’t make a video. I almost went for it, but decided to start off seriously.😜
 
yes, I already have an FM3.

there are a bunch of example videos of vintage les Paul’s through a variety of amps on YouTube from Emerald City Guitars for further examples……I have a les paul tribute from 2017, trying to see if I can get close for recording these type of tones as a departure from the higher gain stuff I normally play.

wondering what/how to upgrade the guitar and then how close I can come via FM3. They are videos of emerald city presenting the guitars for sale, but I. Certainly cannot afford a real one.
 
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yes, I already have an FM3.

there are a bunch of example videos of vintage les Paul’s through a variety of amps on YouTube from Emerald City Guitars for further examples……I have a les paul tribute from 2017, trying to see if I can get close for recording these type of tones as a departure from the higher gain stuff I normally play.

wondering what/how to upgrade the guitar and then how close I can come via FM3. They are videos of emerald city presenting the guitars for sale, but I. Ertainly cannot afford a real one.
I think the biggest factors are going to be the pickups and maybe the wiring harness. If you want vintage LP tones, go for a set of bright, low output, PAF style pickups like Duncan Seth Lovers or Antiquities, Dimarzio PAF Masters or 36th Anniversaries etc. The stock wiring harness in your Tribute is probably fine, but some people do prefer 50's wiring and vintage taper pots in order to go from clean to dirty with just the guitar's volume knob like vintage LPs.
 
yes, I already have an FM3.

there are a bunch of example videos of vintage les Paul’s through a variety of amps on YouTube from Emerald City Guitars for further examples……I have a les paul tribute from 2017, trying to see if I can get close for recording these type of tones as a departure from the higher gain stuff I normally play.

wondering what/how to upgrade the guitar and then how close I can come via FM3. They are videos of emerald city presenting the guitars for sale, but I. Ertainly cannot afford a real one.

I can't either. The first time I played a vintage Les Paul (which was an extremely clean "closet classic" 1952), it was because the shop owner had just bought it, saw me playing a (used, basic) Les Paul Special in his shop, and handed it to me saying, "Here, play a '52." He just wanted to show it off and could tell I wasn't going to smash the headstock into something or drop it. The story he told was that Les Paul (the person) gave it and an amp to a bassist friend of his so that he'd have something to play when they hung out at the guy's house. I, obviously, can't verify that. But it's a cool story if true.

FWIW, it was this one: https://bighouseguitars.com/collections/solid-body/products/1952-les-paul

They can just come up out of nowhere.

As far as upgrades....IMHO,

1. A good setup with the neck as straight as possible (which isn't totally straight) and slightly higher action than most metal (or just modern) players like (it does affect the sound).
2. Un-potted, low output PAF-style humbuckers (SD Seth Lovers or Antiquities, ThroBak, Lollar, VI Pickups, etc.). The originals were a bit "random" because the machines didn't have automatic counting. And, again, Seymour Duncan owns one of the winders that Gibson used on the originals. If you buy one of the pickups that mentions it, there's a non-zero chance that you'll wind up buying pickups that were wound on the same machine as the Beano or Greenie or whatever pickups. Sadly, no one knows for sure.
3. Vintage-taper (10%) pots. CTS and Bourns both make replicas. A bunch of people sell them at various price points. The key is that vintage pots, at 5, yield 10% of the rated value, which is quite a bit different from modern audio taper pots. I think the CTS ones feel better.
4. 50s or 60s wiring depending on your preference. I've seen pictures of the control cavities of bursts that are claimed to be original, with all-original parts, that have both. The vast majority are 50s wiring, but I pretty significantly prefer 60s. It's largely a difference of preference....the big real difference is that with 50s wiring, the tone knob doesn't really do much other than cut level until you get down to about 6 on the knob.

And the big thing is how you use it. I think channel switching amps came about in the mid-70s. Fuzz pedals started in the late 60s. Overdrive pedals were also a bit late. In the 50s and early 60s, you basically had treble boosters and a few things that included a preamp (e.g., Echoplex) that didn't work quite like a modern overdrive or boost....they were always on.

A lot of it comes from what JB demonstrated in that video. Set your amp (or model) loud and bright and use the knobs to actually get the sound you want. Don't rely on cold-clipping circuits, preamp distortion, etc.. A lot of the sound on albums is the sound of a room (natural reverb), early plate reverbs, or chamber reverbs....some of which the Fractals can do pretty convincingly. Any of the Fender Tweed amp models, the early Marshalls, or the AC15/AC30 can get those sounds, depending on which sound you're going for.
 
^THIS!^

some people do prefer 50's wiring and vintage taper pots in order to go from clean to dirty with just the guitar's volume knob like vintage LPs.
Doing that doesn’t require vintage wiring or special parts, it only takes a pot that goes from a low enough point to not overdrive the amp, to the point that the amp distorts. I use all my guitars, and amps including my Fractals, that way, treating the amps like single-channel amps. Strats to my PRS 509 can go from clean to scream by turning their knobs.

The only reason I know that it wouldn’t work is if there’s too much amp gain, reducing the usable range of the pots, but that is an amp adjustment.
 
As several people pointed out, vintage Les Pauls had bright PAF humbuckers. Several of my guitars have good PAF reproductions, and one of my early guitars, an early 60s ES-345, had genuine PAFs.

They sound different than high gain pickups and take different amp settings. I think a good PAF is better-balanced sounding than particularly bright, they have great lows too, but we need to adjust the amp to preserve the tones; too much gain can cover the nuances.

I’ve often wondered if Gibson wasn’t trying to match the sound of Fender’s Broadcaster and Telecaster guitar’s pickups that were beating the Les Paul sales in the market at the time. Single coils can have amazing fidelity, like a well-miked grand piano or John Entwhistle’s bass and rig.
 
^THIS!^


Doing that doesn’t require vintage wiring or special parts, it only takes a pot that goes from a low enough point to not overdrive the amp, to the point that the amp distorts. I use all my guitars, and amps including my Fractals, that way, treating the amps like single-channel amps. Strats to my PRS 509 can go from clean to scream by turning their knobs.

The only reason I know that it wouldn’t work is if there’s too much amp gain, reducing the usable range of the pots, but that is an amp adjustment.
Agreed, all around, at least mostly.

Personally...I think it works better with humbuckers. But, I also think that might just be because they're louder. I also just prefer them (after years of thinking I didn't).

I have a Strat that I like. I never run the neck pickup on 10 because I like the little bit of treble roll-off from turning it down to ~9. But, I also pretty much never turn it down from that. The bridge pickup stays on 10 with the tone turned a good bit down....my wiring in it is a bit odd, btw, it's Volume, Volume, Tone with a fixed tone circuit for the neck and middle. I do approach Strats differently from Les Pauls (or other humbuckers) for whatever reason.

Les Paul clean tones just come from turning the guitar volume down (to ~3). The neck pickup does still sound bright and clear like that....as long as you set the amp loud and bright enough...which also means that you usually have to turn the bridge tone down to get a useable sound out of it. But....that's a thing you can do that doesn't require pedals or amp adjustments to switch between all those sounds. IMHO, it really is the key to those vintage-y tones...a loud & bright amp and use the controls.

A Strat into a fuzz OTOH....volume control all day. Sometimes I think that I could use a Fuzz Face as an always-on pedal with a Strat.

I’ve often wondered if Gibson wasn’t trying to match the sound of Fender’s Broadcaster and Telecaster guitar’s pickups that were beating the Les Paul sales in the market at the time. Single coils can have amazing fidelity, like a well-miked grand piano or John Entwhistle’s bass and rig.

I think they said that it was to make a P90 that didn't hum, but...I wouldn't be too surprised. Les Paul bridge pickups can do a great country sound with an amp set hot and the volume control down. Plus, a lot of people have described them as a "Telecaster on steroids". So...whatever their design goals were, that's more-or-less one of the things they accomplished.
 
^THIS!^


Doing that doesn’t require vintage wiring or special parts, it only takes a pot that goes from a low enough point to not overdrive the amp, to the point that the amp distorts. I use all my guitars, and amps including my Fractals, that way, treating the amps like single-channel amps. Strats to my PRS 509 can go from clean to scream by turning their knobs.

The only reason I know that it wouldn’t work is if there’s too much amp gain, reducing the usable range of the pots, but that is an amp adjustment.
I did say the wiring harness part was a preference, not required. But it is definitely part of the vintage LP tone and vibe. Some people who use their volume knobs to go from clean to dirty prefer an abrupt instead of gradual taper. The taper of the volume pots on my reissue LPs, for example, is such that there's a big drop going from 10 to 7. But the volume pot on most modern guitars would require you to roll all the way down to 2 or 3 to get the same amount of clean up. And 50's wiring affects the way the volume and tone knobs interact with each other, but in a way that can help you reduce mud when rolling your volume back.
 
^THIS!^


Doing that doesn’t require vintage wiring or special parts, it only takes a pot that goes from a low enough point to not overdrive the amp, to the point that the amp distorts. I use all my guitars, and amps including my Fractals, that way, treating the amps like single-channel amps. Strats to my PRS 509 can go from clean to scream by turning their knobs.

The only reason I know that it wouldn’t work is if there’s too much amp gain, reducing the usable range of the pots, but that is an amp adjustment.
Pot values and the wiring schematic make all the difference with 50's Gibsons, so what you need is...

a) Roughly 500K audio taper pots (there's a tolerance etc).
b) For the iconic potted down tones, 50's wiring.
c) A quality PAF clone(s), or P90(s).
d) Vintage style Tune-O-Matic and Aluminum Tailpiece, with the Bridge Studs directly into the solid bodied guitar's top.

The clean-up and treble retention when potting down is caused by the 50's wiring. Contrary to popular belief a number of vintage LP's did come with modern wiring as well, so they suffered treble loss when potted down unless it was changed.

I have a 69 LP converted with 59 PAF's, and the later Cygnus Fractal firmware does a great job of creating pleasing warm vintage tones IMO, on either my 69/59 PAF, or my stage HB LP's (2006 Studio and a The Paul II, both with vintage Duncan JB's and Inductors in the bridge).
 
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Anyone know anyone in Chicago area (northwest suburbs or anywhere really) who you’d trust to work on your guitar and who was helpful?
 
yes, I already have an FM3.

there are a bunch of example videos of vintage les Paul’s through a variety of amps on YouTube from Emerald City Guitars for further examples……I have a les paul tribute from 2017, trying to see if I can get close for recording these type of tones as a departure from the higher gain stuff I normally play.

wondering what/how to upgrade the guitar and then how close I can come via FM3. They are videos of emerald city presenting the guitars for sale, but I. Certainly cannot afford a real one.

I love Emerald City‘s channel, I can listen to Aaron play Strats all day long and never get sick of it. This vid is actually the first time I’ve ever heard him play a Paul-



You can definitely get these tones, but an aspect to consider is that these are generally guys who are used to playing playing guitars into amps using power amp distortion and pretty much all the shit they’re playing that makes us dig it is heavily reliant on really dynamic playing. They all generally know how to milk everything they can out of one channel of an amp, a volume knob and their hands. It’s no different in a Fractal unit, but if that’s not your playing style to begin with, those tones aren’t going to just happen by dialing in a preset.

Exactly what I’m talkin about-



Just one channel of a cranked Bassman and some hands.
 
Can someone who has a real vintage les paul make a video capturing that tone via FM3 and document settings, or post a link to that tone, and or make some suggestions as to how to capture, catch that vide?
Any decent humbucker using a JVM OD amp model, maybe dyna cab 4x12 freidman GB. Fiddle away.
 
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