(re)Creating the feedback you can get from standing in front of a cranked amp?

DC11GTR

DC11GTR

Inspired
Think the intro to Flying In A Blue Dream and the beginning and middle of the 2nd Desert Rose solo. Where you can shift your position and get different notes. Can this be done naturally using studio monitors? Or is there a combination of tweaks on certain parameters in an effect that can do it? I haven't turned my monitors up very loud since I got them but I'm willing to to deal with backlash if it can be done and not harm the speakers.
 
DC11GTR said:
Can this be done naturally using studio monitors?
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Of course, it’s the result of acoustically coupling the sound coming from the speakers that is hitting the strings, which then is picked up by the guitar’s pickups and sent back to the amp as a stronger signal, which then starts all over again. I do it with all my guitars and have one Strat that is especially sensitive and will hold pretty much any note whenever I want it to.

You can increase the speaker volume, stand closer, or use a combination of the two. Small studio speakers tend to be run at a lot lower volume than an amp on stage so get closer and increase the volume if necessary.

Increasing the gain can help but when you do so you begin to lose your control over the loop and it can slip into uncontrolled feedback which isn’t very fun. Riding the sound when it’s in control is a blast. There are some presets and pedals that kinda imitate the sound, but nothing is like the real thing.

Old strings can mess it up, as can a hollow or semi-hollow body guitar because the strings don’t vibrate right or the body resonates at a different frequency, canceling the string vibration. Echo, pitch, and time-modulation effects can negatively affect it too because they change the note’s frequency or cause it to not react to your touch when you need it to. Experiment and you can figure it out.

Cliff’s tech paper discusses it… https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/the-modelers-dont-clean-up-with-the-volume-knob-myth.154557/
 
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Unless you are already running through a power amp into actual guitar cabs, I’ve found extra care is required to band limit the frequencies so that feedback happens within the desired guitarist-ic ranges.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
Of course, it’s the result of acoustically coupling the sound coming from the speakers that is hitting the strings, which then is picked up by the guitar’s picks and sent back to the amp as a stronger signal, which then starts all over again. I do it with all my guitars and have one Strat that is especially sensitive and will hold pretty much any note whenever I want it to.

You can increase the speaker volume, stand closer, or use a combination of the two. Small studio speakers tend to be run at a lot lower volume than an amp on stage so get closer and increase the volume if necessary.

Increasing the gain can help but when you do so you begin to lose your control over the loop and it can slip into uncontrolled feedback which isn’t very fun. Riding the sound when it’s in control is a blast. There are some presets and pedals that kinda imitate the sound, but nothing is like the real thing.

Old strings can mess it up, as can a hollow or semi-hollow body guitar because the strings don’t vibrate right or the body resonates at a different frequency, canceling the string vibration. Echo, pitch, and time-modulation effects can negatively affect it too because they change the note’s frequency or cause it to not react to your touch when you need it to. Experiment and you can figure it out.
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I used to do it with my old rig back in the 90s and made the intro to Flying In A Blue Dream take damn near 20 minutes lol. I wanted to try it with my Kali's but didn't want to risk them if it was something they shouldn't do. Thanks!

rockstarjazzcat said:
Unless you are already running through a power amp into actual guitar cabs, I’ve found extra care is required to band limit the frequencies so that feedback happens within the desired guitarist-ic ranges.
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Good call!! I hadn't considered that at all. Thank you.
 
Blue Dream’s expansive reverb likely conflicts with the idea I suggested with band limiting… One trick from pre-modeling days is to use an easily excitable small amp to generate feedback while recording the primary speakers. On Fractal gear the helper compression and whatnot can be routed to a separate output. Let us know how it goes?
 
rockstarjazzcat said:
Blue Dream’s expansive reverb likely conflicts with the idea I suggested with band limiting… One trick from pre-modeling days is to use an easily excitable small amp to generate feedback while recording the primary speakers. On Fractal gear the helper compression and whatnot can be routed to a separate output. Let us know how it goes?
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Was “Blue Dream” a preset on AxeFX? I think I remember reading that. I only have an fm3 and didn’t see that preset but I’ve have a couple of Satch’y ones of my own. I’ll try the compressor trick as well!
 
I've noticed that lighter guitars make it easier to get controlled feedback at lower volumes. I have a Strandberg 6 string that just sings at low-ish (not TV low!) volume and my Jem from 20 something years ago makes controlling feedback easier than other guitars.

You can also take any small portable speaker with a line in and put it very close to the guitar. It will not sound good but it will help.

Another old trick is to touch the speaker enclosure with the headstock of the guitar. Instant feedback with very low volume. It will be hard to change note tho.
 
GiRa said:
I've noticed that lighter guitars make it easier to get controlled feedback at lower volumes. I have a Strandberg 6 string that just sings at low-ish (not TV low!) volume and my Jem from 20 something years ago makes controlling feedback easier than other guitars.

You can also take any small portable speaker with a line in and put it very close to the guitar. It will not sound good but it will help.

Another old trick is to touch the speaker enclosure with the headstock of the guitar. Instant feedback with very low volume. It will be hard to change note tho.
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Oh yeah… the touching of the enclosure… I actually do remember doing something like that back in the day.

I play a JS-1000 (with a JS-2450 coming soon!!!) and it’s a very light guitar. I get some beautiful sounding natural feedback when I play the G on the B string with pretty much any tone. On a different guitar, I got it on the higher E’s. I think it’s called something like sympathetic resonance… if I could get that everywhere…. Yowza!!
 
DC11GTR said:
Was “Blue Dream” a preset on AxeFX? I think I remember reading that. I only have an fm3 and didn’t see that preset but I’ve have a couple of Satch’y ones of my own. I’ll try the compressor trick as well!
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I was thinking back to the song. Don’t recall about the preset. :)
 
DC11GTR said:
Think the intro to Flying In A Blue Dream and the beginning and middle of the 2nd Desert Rose solo. Where you can shift your position and get different notes. Can this be done naturally using studio monitors? Or is there a combination of tweaks on certain parameters in an effect that can do it? I haven't turned my monitors up very loud since I got them but I'm willing to to deal with backlash if it can be done and not harm the speakers.
Click to expand...

It can be done with monitors...but it requires lots of volume. Now...if you are going specifically for Flying in a Blue Dream where you want the feedback and infinite sustain scenario, this can absolutely be faked with the synth block but the trick is you are locked into the specific feedback pitches you program into the synth block. If you need help I can post some settings or shoot a quick vid, just let me know.
 
Will Chen said:
It can be done with monitors...but it requires lots of volume. Now...if you are going specifically for Flying in a Blue Dream where you want the feedback and infinite sustain scenario, this can absolutely be faked with the synth block but the trick is you are locked into the specific feedback pitches you program into the synth block. If you need help I can post some settings or shoot a quick vid, just let me know.
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Adding to that, besides full on faking it, the synth can be used to help excite the desired pitch.
 
Will Chen said:
It can be done with monitors...but it requires lots of volume. Now...if you are going specifically for Flying in a Blue Dream where you want the feedback and infinite sustain scenario, this can absolutely be faked with the synth block but the trick is you are locked into the specific feedback pitches you program into the synth block. If you need help I can post some settings or shoot a quick vid, just let me know.
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Some settings would be wonderful. I’ve yet to touch the synth block but it would be cool to try one with something specific in mind!
 
DC11GTR said:
Some settings would be wonderful. I’ve yet to touch the synth block but it would be cool to try one with something specific in mind!
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Sure. It's kinda involved, but here goes. I'm going to focus specifically on Flying n a Blue Dream where the feedback oscillates between a C and an E.

Signal Chain:
1. Look up the frequencies for the 2 feedback pitches you want. In the case of Flying in a Blue Dream it's C(~523) and E (~659).
2. Insert a synth block in a parallel signal path before your amp block.
3. Create a shunt from the synth block output to your main signal chain, no input into the synth is needed.
4. Synth Voice 1 Type = Sine, Track = Off, Frequency = 523
5. Synth Voice 2 Type = Sine, Track = Off, Frequency = 659 (or you can input the same frequency from Voice 1 and use the pitch parameter to set a relative interval)

Controller Assignment:
1. Assign controller of your choice (example PEDAL 1) to Voice 1 Level.
2. Start = 0%, Mid = 100%, End = 0%
3. Assign the same controller to Voice 2 Level.
4. Start = 0%, Mid = 0%, End = 100%
5. Assign LFO1 Voice 1 frequency to simulate tremolo. You want about a 10Hz swing up to simulate a finger vibrato or down to simulate a typical trem vibrato so set either the min or max to the pitch center and the other to +- 10.
6. repeat step 5 with Voice 2 Frequency.
7. Go to the controllers page and adjust the LFO frequency up to around 4.75

Now if you play a C note down at the 3rd fret on the A string and very slowly increase your expression pedal, you will get a simulated octave feedback up to about half way complete with Satch style vibrato. If you continue the feedback will morph in to an high E about that and you can slowly rock between both notes similar to turning your body to alter natural feedback pitches.
 
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DC11GTR said:
Holy crap!! Thanks so much for all of that!!

Would I ignore the LFO to do the vibrato myself?
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Your playing isn't triggering the synth, so not here. In order to get infinite sustain in this situation, the synth is generating the tones. If you don't care about infinite sustain, then you can just run the synth in line, disregard the frequency parameter, change the track to pitch+envelope, and use the pitch parameter to set whatever intervals you want.
 
Joel.Brown333 said:
https://digitech.com/dp/freqout/

I know it's not in the FM3 but it works. Or you could install Sustainiac pickups in your guitar.
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The Freqout is an awesome pedal. But the OP's additionally asking about shifting positions to get different notes and unfortunately it doesn't allow that. A great opportunity for the Freqout 2 would be to add an expression pedal input or some type of double tap mode to oscillate between 2 notes.
 
My hopes and dreams built up and crashed in a matter of 2 posts lol

That pedal is a really cool idea and I’m glad it was from Digitech. Aside from the Whammy and a couple of multi-units I didn’t use but saw in plenty of rigs, I don’t think I’ve liked much of their stuff.
 
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