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Re-amping via spdif ONLY - Illustrated Guide (edit)

Orbm1

Inspired
Hey guys!

My recently acquired AX8 will be become my main rig for now on. Yesterday it became official when I loaded the XL+ to my humble home studio rack.

I've watch all the videos I've been able to find and I have a read the re-amp wiki. I have been able to duplicate all the different scenarios, although I have had a bad time doing aggregate devices, but I wanted to try something new that may have been already been done but I could not find it in my search.

ALSO, THIS COULD BE A PARTIAL SOLUTION TO RE-AMP WITH AX8 (I have not tried it yet).

I am using a Saffire 56 interface and the Axe XL +.

EDITED WITH A MORE GRAPHIC REPRESENTATION:













What do you guys think? Ideas, how can we make this better?
 
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Bakerman

Axe-Master
The Saffire should be set to internal clock in this configuration. Even though it may seem to work how you have it now, it's really a phase-locked loop with a rate that will drift.

The reason you found only sum L+R worked when reamping is because you're sending DAW 9 to SPDIF 2, which is the right channel. It probably makes more sense to switch SPDIF 1 between Input 3 and DAW 9 as needed, because you wouldn't want extra noise from Input 3 while reamping. Set the Axe input 1 mode to "left only" then.

If you send DAW 9/10 to SPDIF 1/2 it's possible to reamp two tracks in stereo, by setting the Axe Input 1 mode to stereo. You'll also need to select the correct channel for each row e.g. with vol/pan or amp input select parameters.
 

Orbm1

Inspired
The Saffire should be set to internal clock in this configuration. Even though it may seem to work how you have it now, it's really a phase-locked loop with a rate that will drift.

The reason you found only sum L+R worked when reamping is because you're sending DAW 9 to SPDIF 2, which is the right channel. It probably makes more sense to switch SPDIF 1 between Input 3 and DAW 9 as needed, because you wouldn't want extra noise from Input 3 while reamping. Set the Axe input 1 mode to "left only" then.

If you send DAW 9/10 to SPDIF 1/2 it's possible to reamp two tracks in stereo, by setting the Axe Input 1 mode to stereo. You'll also need to select the correct channel for each row e.g. with vol/pan or amp input select parameters.

I thought I was supposed to set the interface to receive the clock via spdif?

Also, yes, I was thinking the same about spdif switching between takes. Maybe then set up inputs to stereo, input 3 to spdif 1.1 for the first recording of the dry track and switch to DAW 9 spdif1.1 and DAW 10 spdif 1.2 for re-amping... Simpler task...

STILL, with this setting could be a set and forget type of setting, not the 100% ideal but practical....

Thank you for the input!

Omar
 

Bakerman

Axe-Master
I thought I was supposed to set the interface to receive the clock via spdif?
No, not when main input source or "word clock" parameter is set to SPDIF/AES. In those cases the Axe uses the incoming SPDIF/AES signal as clock source.
 

Orbm1

Inspired
Quick bump...

Playing with it for a while and it's actually tracking in stereo.

A couple of updates:

- analog outputs are not needed as I can record the dry (direct in the interface) and wet (via spdif) in one take.

- if I have preset in axe-edit that has two amps (one panned to the left and the other panned to be right), I could actually re-amp in individual tracks at the same time in my daw. This could also work with effects (reverb panned left and delay panned right), one tracked re-amped with reverb and one with delay, both at the same time.

- the best part of all is that I DONT HAVE TO change settings in the axe back and forth, just play as usual, change presets, edit, etc.

- using this set up, I can use any input in my interface to provide the signal for the Axe FX.

- I think this method is simpler than changing settings in the axe, sending analogs signals back and forth, and can definitely speed up all recording and re-amping! I don't have to change interface or connect/disconnect monitors, etc.

Of course, if you gig with your axe, settings need to be changed before the gig, but if it is at your studio, this would be set and forget!


Is there enough interest for me to make a video? Any questions?

I will update the op, I'm unsure if this is worth adding it to the wiki, even in the re-amp sticky.


Thank you!

Omar
 

EJ James

Veteran
Is there enough interest for me to make a video? Any questions?
Yes, please!?

I'm using a Sapphire 40 and this sounds like it might be a workable setup for me. I'm assuming we'd have almost identical routing based on the interface we use?

I've wanted to re-amp for a while, but could just never get my brain around it.
 

Orbm1

Inspired
Yes, please!?

I'm using a Sapphire 40 and this sounds like it might be a workable setup for me. I'm assuming we'd have almost identical routing based on the interface we use?

I've wanted to re-amp for a while, but could just never get my brain around it.

No video as I don't have enough time, but I was able to do a illustrated guide that it is now in the OP, does this help?
 

Smittefar

Fractal Fanatic
I would think that the guitar input on AxeFX is better than the one in the Saphire 56, so when recording the dry track, I would plug into the Axe
 

Gytaxor

Inspired
I like this a LOT! I was just wondering about how to use the AXE as and external FX device for my recordings and I think this might be the way to do it! Thanks to all who participated on this!
 

Orbm1

Inspired
I would think that the guitar input on AxeFX is better than the one in the Saphire 56, so when recording the dry track, I would plug into the Axe
I did a test yesterday and honestly I could not hear a difference between inputs. I'll try to post an audio file later and you tell me if you can tell a difference.

One thing that I was trying was to have the least amount of a/d conversions while keeping super simple without changing settings between processes.

Could someone confirm that this routing, using the interface input instead of the axe's, is an acceptable routing or using the axe's input should be always used?
 

Orbm1

Inspired
I like this a LOT! I was just wondering about how to use the AXE as and external FX device for my recordings and I think this might be the way to do it! Thanks to all who participated on this!
Truly it was a huge collaboration of sorts. I have compiled what I learned form @sasha thread, @GotMetalBoy pdf, @Brock videos and many others to do this. So really I just decided to take a different route and avoid changing settings between takes and keeping it simpler (at least for me).

This may not work with other interfaces as the Saffire has the control mix which allows you to digitally route signals, I'm unfamiliar if ALL spdif or AES interfaces have the same abilities (heck, they may even have more than the Saffire! Lol).

Hopefully this is helpful, that was my main goal!
 

Smittefar

Fractal Fanatic
I guess the difference is very small and may not be audible at all. It is just that the AxeFX has the secret sauce input, and I would guess it to be better than a 'standard' audio interface DI-input.

But, would it give more A/D conversions to come in through the axe? If you still go through spdif to the interface, there is still only one A/D conversion
 

Orbm1

Inspired
I guess the difference is very small and may not be audible at all. It is just that the AxeFX has the secret sauce input, and I would guess it to be better than a 'standard' audio interface DI-input.

But, would it give more A/D conversions to come in through the axe? If you still go through spdif to the interface, there is still only one A/D conversion
It won't give more conversions, but you would have to change the settings of the axe between takes from "main input analog 1 (front)", to "main input spdif."

What "made" me find this method was that I was getting frustrated as I would change the axe setting, record, change to spdif, arm the track to reamp, then I wanted to record some more, no audio coming in: "duh, forgot to change the setting," record, then change it back to re-amp, crap, forgot to arm the right channel! Etcccc.

With this I am more focused on the tracking, and daw routing, no need to add more distractions that could make me miss that "one take".
 

Jason Scott

Forum Addict
The updated guide helps a lot and makes things fairly crystal clear. I'll give this a try later. I originally stopped re-amping because it was just too big a pain in the ass. If this works for me, it could be a game changer. The only difference in my setup is I have a Saffire 14.
 

GotMetalBoy

Forum Addict
I did a test yesterday and honestly I could not hear a difference between inputs. I'll try to post an audio file later and you tell me if you can tell a difference.

One thing that I was trying was to have the least amount of a/d conversions while keeping super simple without changing settings between processes.

Could someone confirm that this routing, using the interface input instead of the axe's, is an acceptable routing or using the axe's input should be always used?
If you plug your instrument into the interfaces input and not the Axe-Fx II input, you won't get a true reamp because the dry track you record won't be the same level and most people will probably record the dry track too hot.

Also, Focusrite USB interfaces are known to get ground loops through the USB port, so your dry track may record a lot of noise which will be very audible when you reamp using a mid or high gain amp.

I know you're using the interfaces input for simplicity but your end results will not be consistent.

I play my Axe-Fx II thru FRFR cabs, so if I follow my SPDIF reamp tutorial ( http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/anyone-use-a-focusrite-scarlett-6i6-for-spdif-reamping.76406/#post-1316561 ), my reamp tracks, sound exactly like my live rig. There's no difference in gain.
 
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Jason Scott

Forum Addict
If you plug your instrument into the interfaces input and not the Axe-Fx II input, you won't get a true reamp because the dry track you record won't be the same level and most people will probably record the dry track too hot.
You simply record a dry track with the Axe and adjust the Saffire's level to match it.

Also, Focusrite USB interfaces are known to get ground loops through the USB port, so your dry track may record a lot of noise which will be very audible when you reamp using a mid or high gain amp.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I have a Focusrite and don't have any ground loops. I'm running a Golden Age Preamp MKII (which boosts the signal by 20+dB) into the Focusrite and the signal is clean.
 

GotMetalBoy

Forum Addict
You simply record a dry track with the Axe and adjust the Saffire's level to match it.



I can't speak for anyone else, but I have a Focusrite and don't have any ground loops. I'm running a Golden Age Preamp MKII (which boosts the signal by 20+dB) into the Focusrite and the signal is clean.
I have a Vintage Axe-Fx II Mark I and a Focusrite USB Scarlett 6i6. Focusrite was aware of the USB ground loop issue, so maybe they corrected the issue. I know some people have had Focusrite fix their interfaces. I tried to have mine fixed but they gave me the run around, so I gave up. I only use mine to reamp and for the MIDI ports and i don't get any noise when using SPDIF.

I don't see where it's mentioned in this tutorial that the dry track level will need to be adjusted? Most people record just under clipping, so if they don't lower the dry track's level, the Axe-Fx II will get way too hot of a signal. Someone new to reamping may run into a lot of issues and then complain that the reamp doesn't sound the same. My tutorial gives consistent reamping every time, but you do have to change settings between recording the dry and reamp tracks. I record all my dry tracks and then record all my reamp tracks. My tutorial also tells you to put your Axe-Fx II settings back, so you can use it with an instrument again.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I'm just trying to point out the issues people may run into. I think this tutorial is great and I wish I knew how to make mine more graphically friendly.
 
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