RCF NX12-SMA

grape said:
I was all gung-ho about it until I tried right next to a lower end 2x12 marshal and... it really didn't compare in the room.
Click to expand...
Hey Grape,
I'm very interested in the RCF as well.
How did you make the comparison? Did you use the same sound(s) w/o any change? I'd expect the Axe to be tweaked in order to perform at its best when switching from a 4x12 to an RCF (and vice-versa): no cab simulation in the first case, search for the best cab simulation in the second one, adapting EQ to the characteristics of both and so on... none of them is 20-20,000 Hz w/i 0 dB, of course.
 
grape said:
To really know, you'll need to play it right next to a 4x12 cab.

Essentially be wary of ANY FRFR if you are attached to "real" cabs. It may or may not work so do the A/B test ;-0
Click to expand...

Excellent point.

That's exactly what I was did.

I had the RCF right next to a 4x12 cab. Marshall w/ V30's driven with a Recto head and then a Bogner head.


Grape - I'm not trying to debate there are differences....just giving my opinion on what I hear.
 
Last edited:
Scott Peterson said:
I've played my RCF NX 12SMA right next to a 100watt Marshall Anniversary Head and a Marshall 412. It more than 'compared' to the rig Jeff was using. It actually freaked him out a little. It's not a battle though; he could be louder and there's no debating it. If it is only a battle of sheer volume, he'd 'win'. But it is not a competition for volume; in fact quite the opposite.

My current bandmate uses an Egnater Rebel - it's a $1200 112 combo. It sounds great, no question. But...

My tones didn't 'wash out' or need tweaking or any of the other stuff folks like to post when directly comparing a conventional analog rig to a FRFR rig. I'd not trade my rig for his in a million years; I like my Marshall stuff from the Axe-FX better than the actual amp because I've dialed it the way I prefer it. If you can't keep up with a half stack... or a 212... with two of these boxes... man, I dunno. Two of these would crush other rigs. Mount them on stands and get them projecting... you might hear it very differently.

FRFR is not 'amp in the room' it never was, it will never be. I don't hear 'amp in the room' as the ideal though. Not anymore. And no amp in the room can compete with what I can do with a few taps and switches on my midi controller either. It's time to flip the script - let's see someone with a "real" cab and amp even come close to having what I have at my disposal. Mic that 'real' cab up and put it in the FOH and lets step out in front and hear what I bring and what the 'real' amp/cab can bring. In a show for my rock/country band I'll bring a 12 string acoustic/6 string acoustic/DADGAD tuning and full on electric tones (via my JTV-59USA and PRS Custom 22) on either/Fender/Marshall/Vox/Matchless/Trainwreck/Bogner Shiva/Bogner XTC/Cameron/Mesa Recto and a myriad of effects tailored, in tempo and perfectly mixed on the fly with expression pedals to the party. And it is a party. No one with even a massive pedal board and a half stack can touch it for sheer versatility and full on amp tones minus all the bells and whistles. I might not sound exactly like his Marshall, but I really don't want to. I want my Marshall tones to sound like MY Marshall tones.

Sorry Grape, I see it; scratch that. I hear it 180 degrees differently.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Grape

Yep, I'll be using it as my only stage monitor, so everything will be going through it via an aux on the mixer, including my guitar.
cheers
 
Just got my RCF NX 12-SMA today! Great full sound and volume; without tweaking any go-to presets. Two hours into exploring it's virtues and I'm thinking it sounds way fuller than the Atomic active cab I've been happily gigging for the last 2 years. So, I can see how 2 of these would give a 4x12 a run; i'm stocked about the wide sound dispersion the coaxial design offers, not to mention the massive headroom/volume. We play on may small stages, and often have guests come up to join us; so to me, someone standing in front my monitor has been an issue in the past; so, i'm so looking forward to my Saturday night gig!
 
My RCF 12NX arrived today also and I am really, really happy. The build quality is fantastic!
Very clear and loud--and it's awesome to hear the patches the way they are supposed to sound!!

BTW, Mike @ Audiopyle has the 12nx covers in stock :)
 
merlin17 said:
Grape, have you played with the cab IRs? They make ALL the difference.
Also for the AmpInTheRoom feel turn up the Room level in the cab block.
I find it VERY convincing.
Click to expand...
Yes, just for reference I've had the Ultra and then the II since the beginning and have tweaked more than I'd like to admit. The IR's indeed make a huge difference some of the newer features in the II's firmware help too. I will give it another shot for fun when I have a chance.
 
BBN said:
Excellent point.
That's exactly what I was did.
I had the RCF right next to a 4x12 cab. Marshall w/ V30's driven with a Recto head and then a Bogner head.
Grape - I'm not trying to debate there are differences....just giving my opinion on what I hear.
Click to expand...

I hear you and it's great that it works for you. I'm just adding a small warning to combo-ers who think this is a silver bullet. I've talked with a couple of people who switched back b/c it just didn't sound right (not specifically with the RCF since I don't know anyone personally who has them). Likewise I've heard other high end FRFR's on stage that honestly sound terrible as a cab replacement (maybe the gear going through it was horrible). Most of all though, I'm relaying my experience with the marshall 2x12 which kind of shocked me.
 
viabcroce said:
Hey Grape,
I'm very interested in the RCF as well.
How did you make the comparison? Did you use the same sound(s) w/o any change? I'd expect the Axe to be tweaked in order to perform at its best when switching from a 4x12 to an RCF (and vice-versa): no cab simulation in the first case, search for the best cab simulation in the second one, adapting EQ to the characteristics of both and so on... none of them is 20-20,000 Hz w/i 0 dB, of course.
Click to expand...

I played
Guitar > AxeFXII > RCF
Guitar > Marshall 2x12 combo

I played them as close together as possible.
I did not to 4C method with the Marshal.

After having a hard time switching, I had someone play through the Marshal constantly while I tweaked and checked tone from my guitar >Axe > RCF. Tweaked for about 15 minutes. I tried keeping the volumes the same and while I achieved a similar sound, the RCF sounds like a loud hifi speaker while the cab sounded like an extremely rich and real cab. So it wasn't a rigorous test but at the same time it wasn't cursory either.

At the time, the IR capture was not available. If I do it again, I'll do the IR capture and even try to record the amp in the room as well as the RCF in the room. Maybe by then the additional EQ matching features will be available.
 
grape said:
I played
Guitar > AxeFXII > RCF
Guitar > Marshall 2x12 combo
Click to expand...
Thanks, now it's clear to me. So it was the combination of Axe+RCF the one unsatisfactory for you, not just the RCF alone. I had thought you were expressing a judgment over the cab in itself.
 
Do we need to set up a resonant frequency is our patches particular to this speaker ? If so, what values have you all been using....we should all be similar shouldnt we ??
 
This speaker is intended to be flat response. You set up speaker resonances to suit your desired tone, not the FRFR speaker.
 
okay,
I guess I do not fully understand this concept and how to optimize this parameter. I will keep reading.
My RCF arrived today...woohooo for tonight.
 
teddis said:
okay,
I guess I do not fully understand this concept and how to optimize this parameter. I will keep reading.
My RCF arrived today...woohooo for tonight.
Click to expand...

That parameter is for the amp/transformer/speaker cab to interact properly inside the modeling algorithms in the Axe-FX modeling. It is dependent of your amp/speaker cab IR that you use and that is what it actually controls. It has nothing to do with your choice of FRFR speaker; ideally your FRFR speaker will just reproduce whatever you put into it cleanly and without color.
 
What Scott said. The resonant frequency parameters change how the Axe's amp sims interact with its internal cab sims ("real" guitar cabs have resonances that "real" amps interact with). A good FRFR speaker (such as the RCF we're talking about) has little or no noticeable resonance of its own, so you don't have to tweak resonances for it.
 
viabcroce said:
Thanks, now it's clear to me. So it was the combination of Axe+RCF the one unsatisfactory for you, not just the RCF alone. I had thought you were expressing a judgment over the cab in itself.
Click to expand...

As I've stated before, the RCF is very good for its intended purpose which is mostly stage wedge with excellent feedback resistance and partially full range vertical monitor. It is better than any lower priced monitor that I know of (ok, I haven't listened to all of them) and it may be better than some of the more expensive ones as well (haven't heard ANY of these except live from an audience).

However, when it comes to emulating a real speaker cabinet (by using it with the AxeFX II), the combination falls short. Both pieces of gear are excellent together and apart but they simply do not sound like a real speaker cabinet. This is of course my opinion but my limited testing proved to me that we still have a ways to go to get the same sound. For lack of better terms, there is "knock" and "swirl" in a real combo that is not present in the Axe or Axe + FRFR. I will do some more experimentation though as well as try to provide audio examples of this... but honestly you can hear it in most reasonably close recordings of various combos on youtube.

I'm in no way trying to degrade either the Axe or RCF but simply want to clarify that it is not the silver bullet to get combo amp sounds in the room. Versatile? Yes. Outstanding quality? Yes. Vox AC30 chilling chime? No. Trainwreck sweet swirling? No. But I still use them b/c it's the next best thing. 5.07 got closer, 6 may be even closer. We'll see.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom