RCF NX12-SMA

luke said:
How much better is the RCF vs the Verve when using the correction IR?
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After corresponding with merlin17 I'm pretty sure that it is possible to do more with a Verve correction IR. I may have something together before too long, although it is a low priority right now.
 
Guys, sure you can use your Verves and use my corrective IR (or even improve it), but that doesn't negate the fact that the Verve is a badly designed wedge. The RCF is clearly superior in every way right out of the box.
 
I'd be interested in what else could be done with the Verve 12ma corrective IR as well (thanks, Merlin17!)

I'd been using the Verve's and was satisfied until I did some shows where I was taking a direct out. I started comparing them with my inexpensive monitors (Alesis M1) and a pair of RCF 310A that I just picked up (got a great deal) and was surprised at the holes and peaks. The current corrective IR does help a lot in getting them closer.

Apart from the apparent difficulty in getting the NX series here in the States, just one of them costs more than I paid for the pair of Verves. So I'm very interested in seeing what can be done with them...

TT
 
merlin17 said:
Guys, sure you can use your Verves and use my corrective IR (or even improve it), but that doesn't negate the fact that the Verve is a badly designed wedge. The RCF is clearly superior in every way right out of the box.
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At almost two times the price it better be...
 
Tommy Tequila said:
I'd be interested in what else could be done with the Verve 12ma corrective IR as well (thanks, Merlin17!)

I'd been using the Verve's and was satisfied until I did some shows where I was taking a direct out. I started comparing them with my inexpensive monitors (Alesis M1) and a pair of RCF 310A that I just picked up (got a great deal) and was surprised at the holes and peaks. The current corrective IR does help a lot in getting them closer.

Apart from the apparent difficulty in getting the NX series here in the States, just one of them costs more than I paid for the pair of Verves. So I'm very interested in seeing what can be done with them...

TT
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I think the problem with the Verve lies in the electronics.
 
With Merlin's IR Correction, my Verve 12ma sounds almost identical (response wise) to my KRK V8 studio monitors. This makes me very happy.....because anything I dial in on my KRK's, translates well to the Verve. And the feed to FOH feed sounds excellent as well (which does not have the Correction IR)
Without the Correction IR, the Verve does not translate well with patches dialed in on studio monitors...but on it's own, it can still sound excellent, you just need to dial your patch to compensate for the Verve freq flaws. (of course, this means FOH may not sound great)

So my current opinion is....if the Correction IR flattens the Verve (decently)....then for me, it's an excellent option.

And I ask....what is the downside? Isn't that the beauty of the Axe (and it's ability to load custom IR's)? The ability to load and utilize this Correction IR is allowing us to 'fix' the Verve (as best it can be).
If there were Correction IR's for all the popular speakers, there would be "less" (and I use that term loosly) of a need to search for the perfect FRFR.
(....hint to Merlin - there's a business idea for you...I thought about it myself, but I don't have the tools or time)
 
well isn't the downside that you're using a cab block? i use two cab blocks on almost all of my patches....i wouldn't want to sacrifice one of them just to correct for dodgy monitors. wouldn't it be better to come up with a peq to do almost the same thing? i think there's an opportunity there for cliff to create a new block in the axe - a graphic eq with say, 32 bands or more that you could use on the end of your chain instead of a cab block. people could work out the correction curve for various speakers and monitors and just post the resultant eq as an effect block that anybody could load...
 
simeon said:
well isn't the downside that you're using a cab block? i use two cab blocks on almost all of my patches....i wouldn't want to sacrifice one of them just to correct for dodgy monitors. wouldn't it be better to come up with a peq to do almost the same thing? i think there's an opportunity there for cliff to create a new block in the axe - a graphic eq with say, 32 bands or more that you could use on the end of your chain instead of a cab block. people could work out the correction curve for various speakers and monitors and just post the resultant eq as an effect block that anybody could load...
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...or just buy a powered monitor wedge that doesn't have those issues and get on with it...

;) :D
 
simeon said:
well isn't the downside that you're using a cab block? i use two cab blocks on almost all of my patches....i wouldn't want to sacrifice one of them just to correct for dodgy monitors. wouldn't it be better to come up with a peq to do almost the same thing? i think there's an opportunity there for cliff to create a new block in the axe - a graphic eq with say, 32 bands or more that you could use on the end of your chain instead of a cab block. people could work out the correction curve for various speakers and monitors and just post the resultant eq as an effect block that anybody could load...
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It is possible to merge two IRs so that they only use one cab block.
 
scott - yes, that's the ideal solution of course, but as we know, the best "flattest" monitors are also the most expensive and not everyone's budget can run to that

as for combining ir's, yes another good solution, but more effort than just dropping a graphic at the end of your chain. there are also only 10 user slots in the ultra and they would fill up very quickly with all the combinations that a user is likely to need....

if someone could accurately measure the frequency responses of the most popular speakers, then wouldn't a tailored graphic not be a quick and easy fix? has anyone tried using the peq to do this based on the manufacturer's curves? i know they're not 100% accurate, but must be worth a try....
 
simeon said:
scott - yes, that's the ideal solution of course, but as we know, the best "flattest" monitors are also the most expensive and not everyone's budget can run to that

as for combining ir's, yes another good solution, but more effort than just dropping a graphic at the end of your chain. there are also only 10 user slots in the ultra and they would fill up very quickly with all the combinations that a user is likely to need....

if someone could accurately measure the frequency responses of the most popular speakers, then wouldn't a tailored graphic not be a quick and easy fix? has anyone tried using the peq to do this based on the manufacturer's curves? i know they're not 100% accurate, but must be worth a try....
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...and as I say to my clients when I do marketing consultation, find the need, fill the need, make money.

There is an entire business to be had there; or on the other end of it, an altruistic community sharing project not-for-profit. The tools are out there; just need someone with the brains, experience and command of the tools to do that for the monitors folks use...

...just to note and as a reminder though.. this is a thread on the RCF NX 12-SMA. Which isn't perfect, but it is hella good. :D
 
Sixstring said:
I think the problem with the Verve lies in the electronics.
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I agree.

I bought a crossover and wired the 12ma to an external amp; what an improvement. I have contacted FBT to see if they will sell me a kit to allow me to convert my 12ma to a 12m. Haven't received a definitive answer yet but they did acknowledge it would be an easy change to make.
 
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It will not be easy or at all possible to correct design flaws with EQ only.
With the Verve it kind of works because it's a coaxial design.
Non-coaxial speakers will probably have phase issues (time delay) and modal anomalies that can't be corrected by EQing.
The QSC K10 (which I also had) sounds harsh on the treble side, but the highs are in fact underrepresented when measured. This harshness can NOT be EQd out. Other speakers that may have a flubby low end may have too little lows nevertheless. It's a design thing.
Buy a GOOD box (like the NX-series) and you won't have the need to correct anything.

BTW: Combining IRs won't help much, because you should feed the PA with a not-EQd cab IR...
 
Scott Peterson said:
...or just buy a powered monitor wedge that doesn't have those issues and get on with it...

;) :D
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Down side to that is that not everyone has the finances to run out and buy a $1,500 FR monitor. A PEQ with say 10 bands should be enough and that I would think could be a doable fix for those of us that don't have the money to burn on a better solution.
 
Sixstring said:
Down side to that is that not everyone has the finances to run out and buy a $1,500 FR monitor. A PEQ with say 10 bands should be enough and that I would think could be a doable fix for those of us that don't have the money to burn on a better solution.
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I don't have money to 'burn' either; and I don't post such things on threads about gear I don't have or cannot afford.

FWIW, the monitor in question can be had for quite a bit cheaper than the price you quote. PM me if you are interested.
 
John said:
I agree.

I bought a crossover and wired the 12ma to an external amp; what an improvement. I have contacted FBT to see if they will sell me a kit to allow me to convert my 12ma to a 12m. Haven't received a definitive answer yet but they did acknowledge it would be an easy change to make.
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It's not as convenient as an all in one powered cab but if it sounds better at a fraction of the cost it will do. For me the 12m's I have been using have sounded fine, ever sense I tried Merlins corrective EQ I have been wondering what's up with the 12mA.
 
It's a bit funny, isn't it? : a few months ago the Verve 12mA were widely considered to be the "perfect" cabinets for the Axe-Fx, and now that the attention has been drawn to the RCF NX12-SMA, everybody's talking about how bad the Verves are..
 
rednebb said:
It's a bit funny, isn't it? : a few months ago the Verve 12mA were widely considered to be the "perfect" cabinets for the Axe-Fx, and now that the attention has been drawn to the RCF NX12-SMA, everybody's talking about how bad the Verves are..
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Well, that might be the assumption, but the observation is not accurate.

For instance, I never posted one word about the 12ma except to say I preferred the 8ma. I did borrow a 12ma and used it... but never posted anything about it other than it was loud. It is loud, btw. LOL.

I don't recall anyone claiming the 12ma was 'perfect' at all. Nothing is perfect, not even the RCF NX 12-SMA. The NX 12-SMA is a helluva damn good speaker though.
 
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