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Raw amp sounds - anyone know how to get them?

Adinfinitum

Experienced
i used to have a Mesa Boogie .22 Caliber Plus amp. It had this unique chain saw type overdrive. Also, my Marshall 1987x also has a raw crunch sound. Most modelers tend to have a very processed sound. Anyone have any techniques to getting a more raw, unprocessed sound?
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
The AMP block recreates the actual sound of the real amp. It is not more processed.

You may experience the final tone as more processed because of the cab modeling, which is that of a mic'd cabinet.
If you are looking for the amp-in-the-room sound, do just that: connect the Axe-Fx to a power amp and guitar cabinet.
 

Adinfinitum

Experienced
Thanks Yek, but i use both a CLR and an power amp with a cab. I'm not talking about amp in the room (Lord, i dont want to start that discussion again whether the Axe can get that or not).

You are probably right, it may just be the limitation of the cab IRs. But, i've ABed the Axe with other "devices" and some can get that very raw amp sound. I've also gotten it with mic'ed up amps like the Boogie and JMP1.

Note - I've had an Axe since Standard Firmware 3.0 (before the Ultra even existed), so I'm pretty familiar with the Axe.
 

Clockwork Creep

Power User
In short, if you want a more "Raw and unprocessed" tone, search for a fitting IR or make your own. Pretty sure that's where your bottle neck is.
Other tips include: Do not adjust the amp block advanced parameters as you may create an amp which is physically impossible, or at least not authentic. Except for the speaker page: Adjust these settings to get the most authentic result of how this particular amp would interact with this particular cab. Also, do not adjust any parameters in the cab block and don't use a mic sim.
This is how you'll get a tone which is pretty much identical to a real mic'ed amp with a cab, monitored the same way as you monitor your axe fx.

You could also record in high volume, so there would be some feedback/Acoustic interaction between your guitar and your amp.
 
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Adinfinitum

Experienced
Thanks Freemind.

I think some of the above responders are misinterpreting my question. I'm not really claiming that the models are not accurate, I'll trust Cliff on that. What I'm really asking is what specific amp or cab parameters (besides weeding through hundreds of IRs) should i tweak to get the amp sounding rawer that the default amp/cab settings.
 

∞Fractals

Power User
Thanks Freemind.

I think some of the above responders are misinterpreting my question. I'm not really claiming that the models are not accurate, I'll trust Cliff on that. What I'm really asking is what specific amp or cab parameters (besides weeding through hundreds of IRs) should i tweak to get the amp sounding rawer that the default amp/cab settings.
I think in order to get effective advice, you're going to need to explain what you mean by "raw". Better yet, post an exemplar clip.
 

NeoSound

Fractal Fanatic
Thanks Freemind.

I think some of the above responders are misinterpreting my question. I'm not really claiming that the models are not accurate, I'll trust Cliff on that. What I'm really asking is what specific amp or cab parameters (besides weeding through hundreds of IRs) should i tweak to get the amp sounding rawer that the default amp/cab settings.

Amp tartar recipe :

Amp block dynamics page - character type "dynamic"
Amp block preamp page - harmonics "10 oclock to one oclock"
AMP block preamp page - crunch "just a dash"


Gain and master balanced in their sweet spots
bump the presence up a little

edit: and volume enough to hear/feel all of this

YMMV :)
 

Adinfinitum

Experienced
Neosound - Thanks! Will give that a try. I'll also review the wiki again. It's been a while since I read it and there are many new parameters.

Note I'm away for the holidays and can't post a preset or sample of what I'm talking about.

When running amp/cab, i generally use a Marshall 20/20 and 1926 (2 x 12) or 1960a.

Real amp's could be any of the following: Marshall 50 watt 1987, Voodoo modded JMP with Brutal and Savage switch, Peavey 5150, EVH 5153, Hiiwatt DR 504, JMP-1, ceriatone Trainwreck clone, and Fargen mini Plex. Oh and Randall MTS system (which sounds awesome).

But I'm basically talking 70's Marshalls.

Someone just posted Mark IV patch that has sort of the sound I'm looking for.

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for.
 

Justmc

Inspired
I've found increasing the "air" and "dephase" settings in the Cab block give my presets more bite . I'm using FRFR . Good luck on your quest .
 

Wolfenstein98k

Power User
To elucidate: In my experience there's two things which really show the "life" in the Axe-FX that typically is missing from modelers:
1) Sheer volume - there is no replacement, no setting, no algorithm that can replace what happens when a loud sound hits the eardrum. Things sound better louder (making sure you tweak your EQ to account for our friends Fletcher and Munson, of course)
2) The Master Volume setting - it's my understanding that the MV in the Axe is not 1:1 with a real amp's master volume, and it generally should be set lower than you would by sight alone. So long as I'm not going for a balls-to-the-wall metal tone, I always use Cliff's compression trick to set the MV. Ignore the numbers enirely when setting the MV. See here for more info:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/setting-the-master-volume.119903/
 

Adinfinitum

Experienced
The CLR gets pretty darn loud.

Anyway, I'm not going to get dragged into a KPA v. AXE v. HELIX v. AMPLIFIRE v PLUGIN discussion. Each has some pretty good strengths, some differences in approach and variations on features. They all sound really good to me. As an example, I was playing through my Amplifi (which is basically a POD X3) on a Marshall Plexi patch - it was a Steve Hackett patch i downloaded and tweaked a little. It cleaned up really nicely - I was taken aback at how good it sounded with the neck pickup vol turned down.

As i said in some other thread, i had the KPA and Axe going through the CLR and ab:ed them. Switching between two similar Plexi patches and profiles. After a while and quickly switching between them like a three card monty dealer, I couldn't tell one from the other - they both sounded great. What was interesting to me is that i'd play one and think it sounded awesome, then switch to the other and didn't think it sounded as good. After a few seconds, my ears adjusted to the sound and it sounded great. When I switched back to the other unit, same thing. It didn't immediately sound as good as Unit B. Then my ears again adjusted to it and i liked the sound.

Well, i guess i did get into a Axe/KPA discussion after all.
 

lucbl3

Member
Maybe something related to Master Volume? Sometimes we forget and Increase the master volume to maximum, since the output volume can be lowered. Master volume at high settings can smooth things out. IMHO
 
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